The Abuse at Fort Sill, Oklahoma Escalates
Kneecap – The definition from allwords.com is: verb 1. To shoot or otherwise damage someone's kneecaps as a form of revenge, torture or unofficial punishment.
Derivative: kneecapping noun
You wouldn’t think that kneecapping would be an acceptable punishment for someone who bought a carton of cigarettes and 4 cans of chewing tobacco. Yet that is what happened on Tuesday night, January 31st in Fort Sill. The privates don’t deny that the perpetrators deserved disciplinary action, and they accepted their usual military measure of being chewed out with the guilty. But what happened after that is almost unbelievable:
Morale wasn’t too high at the FTU (Fitness Training Unit) yesterday after a Private lost his composure, cut himself up and smeared himself with feces after his sojourn in the PTRP at Fort Sill (See
"Breaking News" below. Still, who really knows why a soldier in the FTU commissioned another soldier (Private Gopher) in the PTRP (Physical Training Rehabilitation Program) to obtain the above named contraband for him in the first place?
At one point in the public disciplinary process, Private Gopher, who very recently had knee surgery, lost his composure and turned and walked away from his sergeants’ wrath (ripping off his BDU shirt, tee shirt, and hat). The Sergeants understandably became even more upset. At that point, one of them ordered two brand new recruits who were witnessing the process to take Private Gopher down. They did so. At no time did Private Gopher resist. He returned to his lawful place in formation and donned his cast off uniform components. He was then ordered by one of the sergeants to “take a knee”. According to witnesses, Private Gopher replied, “I CAN’T take a knee, sir, but I will sit down.” He was ordered again, louder this time, to take a knee.
Remember that these sergeants are fully aware of the physical state of their various “privates”. They KNEW Private Gopher had just had knee surgery.
Again Private Gopher replied that he could not take a knee, but he could sit down, and would do so. At that point, in full view of the rest of the PTRP soldiers, Private Gopher’s legs were knocked out from under him and he “fell down screaming”. [The account as related to me on Feb 1st] Then, the remaining PTRP soldiers were ordered to turn away from this spectacle and told that they didn’t need to watch. And so the intimidation campaign and abuse has escalated to another level.
posted by Pat deV at 9:02 PM
27 Comments:
LEVANWORTH..................FOR A REAL LONG TIME.
The officers think they are building "killers" by using these tactics, and perhaps they are....
Alot of these young men later come home and kill a wife or girlfriend, but what they should be going after is the officer who viciously harmed the soldier physically and mentally.
I think this is another example of tough nutz Republican culture.
When I read these articles I really went nuts. My son is in PTRP and he had suggested I look for a sight called suffering at Fort Sill as it described his very first day there. I couldn't find that however I did find this one. I immediately contacted the IP and he confirmed that (with a grain of salt) these stories are somewhat true with a little embellishment of course. However an investigation had been launched and that the sargents in question are no longer there. I spoke to my son last night and he confirmed that as well and said that things are starting to change and it is getting better. His first day was the kneecapping and he was also on the second wave of scraping the wax. His knee injury happened in November and at this time they still have 3 different diagnosis's and have yet to do anything. That as of yesterday is also changing. Master Sargent Dixon was very helpful and I now feel alot better about the situation knowing that he is a man of his word. Within one day he had accomplished what he had promised to me. Thank you for posting this site so that I was able to know what was going on as my son could not tell me anything and able to do something about it.
I was in PTRP for 6 months and was treated badly as well as all the other privates...there were people in there with knee or arm problems and they told us we ALL had to stay up past lights out and scrape the floor...now mind you a lot of us could not get on our knees to scrape or use our arms to scrape...im glad DS Shithead is gone. B-Btry needs to be shut down...PVT CRAZY
Pvt Crazy, I don't know if you are still there or not...I hope you made it out, either home or to your duty station.
If you are still there, keep the faith. I'm not giving up on any of you.
Pat Dev how was the food last Friday @ 95th AG BN (RCPT) FT. Sill Dinning Facility??? We saw you eating with PVT Thurman like you were in a fancy restaurant... What do you have to say about that... I know you think different abour 95th AG now. They eat like kings in here. Next time do your homework first before you talk.
Well, is this my old friend, Anonymous at Fort Sill? You should have come up and introduced yourself ;-) But then you couldn't be anonymous any longer, and make snide remarks for which you are not accountable, could you? If you saw us eating, then you know that I had a ham & cheese sandwich, and Pvt Thurman had a cup of coffee and a piece of pie. Since you are at Fort Sill and eat at that particular dining facility, you know that the menu is always altered for Family Day. You also know that this really does narrow down your identity...
I don't recall ever complaining about the food. Eating like "a king" in a prison-like environment is still eating in prison. And I have always been good at homework...wait and see...
Well the inadequate health care still continues. My son during physical therapy had a 50 lbs weight dropped on his head ended up luckily with only 8 staples in his scalp. No further tests were done on this and since has been suffering with crippling headaches which drop him to his knees. They are refusing to do a cat scan as they want a Doctor to prescribe it and as they are putting him in a 3 week limit to pass his run he is now longer receiving physical therapy (though still needed) and doesn't have a "doctor" to authorize a CAT scan. My son has opted for the transfer for the PT test so as to finally be out of 95th one way or the other. Of course if he is discharged he will very likely have no medical back up for his injuries either. The depression has gotten out of hand as has the verbal and psychological abuse causing it . I have written to all the representatives, congress and the president and not one has responded either verbally or in writing. Obviously the Government has no desire to take care of thier own.
Well, pat I don't know why you say a prison when PVT Thurman was doing ...nothing working in the supply room all day (sitting around) doing nothing but getting paid over $1,000 a month, health care for free, 3 meals a day, place to sleep, clothing, and you still say is a prison... that's why you had that reporter with you that day??? I hope he never say or mention that he was in the Army; because this Army is for MEN not kids.If he mention he was in, is a dishonor for the Army. 95th dinning facility is been the winner for many Awards and do not altered or change meals when family comes, they have the best meals in the post... ohhhhhhhhhh that's for your info. Quit talking about stuff that you don't know, and think about the American freedom, is not free. That's why your PVT Thurman can't handle, this is for men...
Thank you once again for your enlightening comments. I'm not going to engage in a debate about what Pvt Thurman did or didn't do...the supply sgt knows. Interesting that you would say the Army is only for MEN, since your own Command Sgt Major is a WOMAN. And from what I saw and heard, she had a lot more guts than many of the MEN at Fort Sill. Maybe you should pay more attention to HER example as a superior and less attention to harassing privates.
You're right that American freedom is not free: it's being paid for by people like both of my sons, one of whom just returned from Iraq in January, and the other who had the misfortune to be injured at Fort Sill.
In prison, everyone gets 3 meals a day, free clothing, food, a place to sleep, and questionable health care as well. But they can't leave the premises or they are arrested. Thanks for making my point for me.
$12,000 a year is just above poverty level. And for that we expect (and GET) young men and women who are willing to put their lives on the line. This includes the young men in the Fort Sill PTRP, whose only crime was to be injured. And for that, you and your ilk have hounded and harassed them, and verbally and physically assaulted them...or stood by while others did to. You are the dishonor to the Army, not the PTRP guys. I find it sad that the only defense you can offer is that the "dinning" [sic] facility has won awards.
Now, moving on from there... thank you to the 4/21 commenter. You and others who would like to tell their stories are welcome to contact me at ptrosss@gmail.com.
I know 95th has not 1 but few females and they are real good at what they do, i'll say the best. Now when I say men I was going more to the line of MEN, not cry baby hiding in the Supply room sleeping all day doing nothing getting paid... ohhhhhhh using the internet to tell you all his night stories about 95th, and crying to you. If you don't want to get in a debate; well don't be here talking stuff you DON'T know, get a life and do something good with your time. 95th Drill Sergeants are the best in the business and they are not going to be sidetrack with your stuff (not to say some else). Send your Thurman guy to the Boy Scouts to see if he learns good things, beside what you are teaching him.
Now it's obvious to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. I'm trying to remember that in a war of words, you clearly have no ammunition. So I will try to keep it simple for you. Maybe you haven't read Pvts Howell and (the late) Scarano's statements elsewhere on this blog. Others will come to light soon...in a larger venue. As to debate, well there can be no debate when you hide in the shadows and just call names like a cowardly bully. Don't think your attempts to intimidate me will work. I am a wife, a mother of 3, grandmother of 3, and I work as well. As to what I taught him, you wouldn't begin to know a thing about that, now would you? Are you behaving the way your mother and grandmother taught you? I hope not...and I bet they would be disappointed to find out you are using your power and position to bully those who are injured and trying to heal.
If the 95th Drill Sergeants are the best in the business, I feel sorry for the Army. Two of the three of them have been significantly reprimanded, and your 1st Sgt has been relieved of his post. This didn't happen because of a blog or wild accusations. It happened because of an investigation of allegations that turned out to be true...obviously you are in denial. And if you and your pals intend to continue your behaviors that are entirely against Army regulations, then sooner or later that investigation will include you.
I leave this blog open to anonymous comments so that those who are too afraid of people like you can post without fear of reprisal. I seriously considered closing it to anonymous comments because of your stalking behavior. But then it would shut out those other people, and that would be wrong.
In closing, I won't answer any more of your silly attempts to start some kind of fight. I feel sorry for you. Your anger and hatred will eventually eat you alive.
My wife has recently called me to say that after her legs became so swollen she could not walk. she was sent to a doctoer who gave her @ injections. later she was made to stand at attention for over 3 hours. She told me she was very afraid. I have now not heard from her in over a week. I am very afraid what is happening. how can I help her? will the ARMY release her if she cannot perform. my wife is 39 yrs old. she wants to serve our country. she trained for bootcamp for over 7 months prior to entering. what is happening now?
sosasignaturte@yahoo.com
i also think the army is for men not kids. and when my son was took to ft sill.the gaurds took him to a cell where they open the doors on other inmates and told them to get him. that is a shame to be there in the first place. and to be treated like that if the gauards there want someone to go fight the iraq war why dont they go? our young men and women are told every thing to get them in the army.once there it is different. and the gaurds at ft.sill should be punished for what they do to the young men.
my name is dan justice and this is for that stupid son ofa bitch anonymous who said that thurman wasent a man fuck you, you dont deserve to live in this country much less live at all. I personaly knew him I was in ptrp from sept 10 05 to march 31 06 and I also knew pfc mathew scarrono (scarry) as we called him and both of these soldiers were men and it took guts to stand up and let everyone know of all the bad things that we were put through so to anonymous good night and go fuck your mother
I can't believe how much the Army has changed lately. If you are still in training and can't cut it, then leave. You will not go to jail if you leave as a trainee. Tell your Drill that you don't want to be there, refuse to work and they will out process you quick and you will receive an honorable discharge for failure to adapt to military standards.
I was injured in Iraq, deployed again, still injured, and I'm still in. I have a bad knee, hip, extremely bad back an torn rotator cups, and I still manage to do everything that a trainee can do and more. I know a few Drills on Fort Sill and have seen how they treat their "kids" as trainees are regarded. They can't yell at them like I was when I went through training, can't touch them and can't restrict their food choices. DFAC food sucks, but 95th is the best DFAC I've eaten at. It's no wonder why so many trainees get fatter while they're there, no self control to step away from the fatty-ho cakes.
all of you that claim you are being abused are full of it. Come to my unit and we'll show you abuse. We won't play with you little kids. Stop trying to make your problems sound like it's the Drills fault, you're the one who either can't cut it or lied about a prior injury when you joined.
And until you wear a unit patch on the left and a combat patch on the right, I don't want to hear you whine about military life or food.
I have been absent from this blog for many months for personal reasons, but I'm coming back (big grin). To Dan Justice, I missed your comment and thank you very much.
To Next Door in 95th: "I can't believe how much the Army has changed lately. If you are still in training and can't cut it, then leave. You will not go to jail if you leave as a trainee. Tell your Drill that you don't want to be there, refuse to work and they will out process you quick and you will receive an honorable discharge for failure to adapt to military standards."
Unfortunately, that's not the case, "Next Door". You should ask your COs about the retention program. Their promotions, points, etc., all depend on how many trainees are on the rolls. As long as a trainee is still counted as a trainee, it doesn't matter whether that individual is injured or not. The COs are penalized for attrition.
"Come to my unit and we'll show you abuse. We won't play with you little kids. Stop trying to make your problems sound like it's the Drills fault, you're the one who either can't cut it or lied about a prior injury when you joined. And until you wear a unit patch on the left and a combat patch on the right, I don't want to hear you whine about military life or food."
I personally know of at least one of the guys from the PTRP who is in Iraq...and there are more with whom I've lost contact. So does that mean that now they can whine about military life and food? Funny, I didn't hear whining about food, just about the abuse while they were injured. What is it with you guys and the food? In fact, what is it that makes you despise injured trainees?
Oh, I forgot. You don't believe they were injured, even though they had to have x-rays or MRIs (not MREs) that validated their injuries to be assigned to the PTRP in the first place. And if they were injured, you're convinced they're just liars. So if you get injured, does that make you a liar, too?
its complaining like this that is making the army roll downhill and having all these crapbag pvts come in. Its not a vacation, all you have to do is what you are told. if they say take a knee, take a knee. you cant use surgery or anything else for a crutch, just do it. lets be honest
i was in ptrp in fort knox after bct because i had fractured my femur. ptrp at that post was not the worst thing. the things that drove us crazy was having to sit in a room for day in and day out reading books. sure the drill seargents there werent too happy, but you never really meet a nice drill. as for me, ive made it onto ait. they are already chaptering me with a failure to adapt discharge. but i know i made it through bct, so i know i can come back afew months down the line and give it another shot.
This is to Anonymous. . . I sincerely hope that you feel the severe and debilitating pain of a severe knee injury someday. . . I was at fort Sill(A.K.A. Ft. Hell) for four months in 2001, I spent most of that time on crutches. I've personally witnessed abuse and sexual harassment of Enlistees. . . You know nothing of the abuse because your an ignorant puffed up smidgen of blowfish shit.
Trying to defend abusive ass-hats by saying that the Army is "For Men" and reminding us that "Freedom Isn't Free" . . . Wow. . . Your a total patriot. . . Well I'd like to give you another famous quote. . ." Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" Oscar Wilde.
I want to thank those who have reported the abuse they suffered as well as those who have supported they're loved ones through the hardship suffered.
By the way. . . I'll never walk normally again due to the injuries I suffered at Ft. Sill. . . So Anonymous. . . I would like to invite you to respond to this but seeing as how you've entered into a battle of wits without a weapon. . . I won't hold my breath.
My husband was shot and killed on base May 12, 2001 by Bryan Britman in fort Sill, Ok. Since then, and prior to this happening ... I took notice to how many "accidental" shootings that were taking place in and around this town. It's ridiculous. Some people either need some serious training with their weapons... or don't have any business owning one.
It's a good thing that proficiency at Ice-Skating is not a requisite for becoming a soldier, because I'd never have become one. Many people get into through the Recruiting Process who just do not belong in the Military. Too bad the Ethic in Society has changed so much with the coming in of the "X-Generation".
So I wanted to add an update to my situation. . . I have, since my last post, applied for disability through the V.A. however, my claim was denied. The reasons for the denial of benefits were lack of evidence (at first) and falsified documentation (second).
It would seem that the so called "Doctors" at the T.M.C. at fort Sill decided that I had somehow dislocated my knee at the age of 18 and was treated at Childrens Hospital here in Dan Diego. . . I have questions!
1. How do you get treatment at a childrens hospital when your legally considered an adult?
2. As I was never properly treated or examined and only given 1, Yes One, X-Ray, how can they make any determination on the disposition of my injuries? and why does my record say that I was given an MRI?
3. if I had suffered a dislocation of the knee just eighteen months before my enlistment physical, how the fuck did I actually pass it?
As to the falsified paperwork. . .I recently, finally, received a full copy of my discharge paperwork(201 File) and upon reviewing it found papers with my signature the I never signed. . .
so . . . What the fuck?
Tell me again how the army is great and that Ft.Sill is the best place to be. I could use a good time right now. I may have blown knees but I'm tougher than most sons of bitches out there. Don't call me a coward, and don't you ever call me weak.
Are you still posting about these incidents? My husband was killed on base @ fort Sill by Bryan Britman (in a home he lived in with his family).
cynthiataylor21@hotmail.com
I doubt anyone comes on here anymore, but ill tell my story anyway. I got in ft sill in aug. 2006 I was pretty fat and shouldn't of been there. But I was there all the same. I made it through basic training but could not pass my run. So I got stuck in "fat camp" . Fitness training unit. We were in the same building as the ptrp guys but our lives were far worse.. Lol. We didn't have profiles so they could torture us anyway they wanted. I was there for 4 months but I passed my test and served 4 years active duty honorable discharge so I don't wanna hear everyone there is a shit bag or baby. I can tell you that place was horrible, I don't remember any of the drill sergeants names but one would always come in drunk, one night he came in smashing a baseball bat against the bunks and screaming, he made us go outside in summer pts, (it was late nov.) it had snowed out and he had us doing low crawls for an hour. After this he swung his bat back and forth and made us run past him and dodge the bat while we ran by. Then he made us stand in formation for over an hour. This happened several times, waken up middle of the night brought outside in cold forces to wear shorts and tee shirt for hours. Also all the drill sgts were African anerican and very racist towards the white people. It was very obvious with the way African trainees were treated towards the white ones, some of the African American trainees were passed on thru when they obviously couldn't pass a pt test 300+ lbs lol. However I will say I lost a shot load of weight there like 75lbs in 4 months. Also those scum bag drill sgts never caught me sneaking out every night from 7-8:30 getting everyone there bare essentials,
Djhammick@ymail.com I'm the above post!
You're thinking of Marines.
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