Monday, January 30, 2006

Abuse is Rampant at Fort Sill, Oklahoma

After an absence from blogging for many months, I’m going to co-opt my own forum for what may seem to be a side issue. It has come to my attention that there is a place at Army Basic Training installations called PTRP (Physical Training Rehabilitation Program). Theoretically, it’s for soldiers who have been injured during training to rehabilitate and be returned to training. Perhaps that is the case at some of those facilities. I really couldn’t say. But in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, home of the Field Artillery, it’s different. I’ve discussed the tale that I’m about to tell with many regular folks, and some soldiers on active duty. Their responses range from disbelief to incredulity. The sad thing is that those with the power to change it view it as business as usual.

Whatever its original purpose, the PTRP at Fort Sill is now a warehouse for a sliding inventory of 40-50 injured soldiers, and its occupants have been there for tenure of up to fourteen months. Current regulations state that in order to be admitted to PTRP, a soldier “is likely to recover within 4 months, and complete all the physical requirements of training.” In another area of the TR 350-6, they do acknowledge that a stay can be “up to 6 months in duration”.

It all started in August, 2005, when a young man whom will we call Private Sincere enlisted in the Army. He probably should have known when his first MOS (job description) was misrepresented to him, that this did not bode well for his future in the Army. Still, his brother was on duty in Iraq, and he wanted to “do something”. He went back to the MEPS (military entry processing station) with his recruiter, who helped him to change to the MOS he “thought” he had in the first place.

Once in Basic Training, Private Sincere was injured by late August. He called his home, alarmed at the fact that his feet were so swollen he couldn’t lace his combat boots, and he was in extreme pain. He was not allowed to seek medical attention, or to take anything to relieve his pain and inflammation. Pvt. Sincere was derided as if he had somehow deliberately created the symptoms. His mother wrote to the liaison officer, and Private Sincere was sent to “sick call” (after more verbal abuse). He received ibuprofen and was restricted from running. He did well in all other aspects of his training. He finished his Advanced Individual Training and was second in his class. He was ordered to take an alternative event (walking instead of running) and passed all other aspects of his final PT (physical training) test. In fact, he finally received a bone scan (nearly 3 months after the symptoms began) an hour after he successfully completed the final PT test. The scan revealed stress fractures. Private Sincere graduated and then, immediately after the ceremony, was informed that he and two other soldiers were being assigned to the PTRP. They wouldn’t be going to their first duty stations. So sayeth Colonel Fulton, who waited until the last moment to have his subordinate, Captain Cunningham, drop this on the drill sergeants of the three graduates as their families, who had come from across the country, waited for them. Later, Capt. Cunningham would have to “ungraduate” the three young soldiers in order for the PTRP to accept them. It had made good theater, however, at the graduation ceremony, to be able to say that they had 100% graduation (this naturally didn’t include those who had been discharged in the early stages of the process). The drill sergeants and officers were all quite self-congratulatory that they had taken this motley crew of useless “recruits” and turned them into soldiers. Somehow, the fact that these young men had all volunteered in service to their country, and stuck it out until the end, didn’t matter. [I recall when my eldest son graduated from Basic Training at Fort Knox in 2000, the presentation, at least, was quite different. -PD]

At first, it wasn’t too bad for Private Sincere and his fellow retainees. Soldiers were given limited exercise and duty, and RICE (rest, ice compression, elevation), and allowed to watch some TV or read while they maintained their quarters and recuperated. In Private Sincere’s case, the initial rest (sprinkled with a little hope) was the only thing that could help him. The three graduates were in an awkward position, because technically they had completed all their training. They had been promised (as had their families) that they would be treated humanely, and that they would retain their status as graduates. They might not be able to wear their hard won berets, but Capt. Cunningham assured the concerned parents of the three holdovers that he would speak to the sergeant at PTRP and explain their special circumstances as graduates. This, of course, was soon remedied by the fact that Capt. Cunningham had to “ungraduate” them. And so began the three privates descent into a real twilight zone. IMAGINE A BOOT CAMP THAT NEVER ENDS…

The Inspector General’s office found no regulations had been broken in the “ungraduation”. Instead, it was related that those in charge had exceeded their authority by ordering an alternate walking event for the unsuspecting three. Regulations did not forbid the alternate event, but did not provide for it, either. What “should” have happened in Private Sincere’s case was that he “should” have been assigned to PTRP when his injuries first became apparent. He was described as “lucky” to have been allowed to complete his training. [How is it lucky to continue to stress an injury for nearly 3 months after it occurs?] “All” he had to do now was to run 2 miles in 16 minutes and 36 seconds (8 mins and 18 secs per mile) and on he could go to his first duty station…or back to basic training (recycled) as if he had not been through that gauntlet already and graduated.

The initial living conditions in the PTRP were bad enough. There were 50 “privates” in a bay (like a crowded dorm). Sewage backed up on a regular basis, creating obvious health hazards. Mentally ill privates were housed with privates whose injuries were purely physical in nature. One private frequently cut himself. Another sang at the top of his lungs, 24 hours a day. Another talked to himself constantly, muttering and cursing, and trying to start fights. Some were on medication, and couldn’t even stand up for evening formation…literally incoherent and drooling on themselves [one particular private who fits this description has been in PTRP for 14 months]. These privates were initially put into PTRP for physical injuries, but had deteriorated over time. Exploratory surgeries were done on some, and they’d wake up to discover that multiple procedures had been performed without their knowledge. On at least one soldier, those procedures had to be corrected by additional surgery. Some soldiers were alarmed and went to the mental health counseling unit where they were told, “We’re getting tired of being the counselors to PTRP.” There was a parade of temporary drill sergeants, some who actually cared about these young men. One of them even managed to get permission for these soldiers to enroll in college classes while they were in PTRP. But that was before Sergeant Langford.

Sgt. Langford is permanently assigned to the PTRP. He’s certain that these injured soldiers are all malingerers…he’s been heard to say so. This is despite the fact that no soldier in PTRP is there without a medical profile that states their condition and allowed activity levels. After canceling all weekend on-base passes (PTRP soldiers are not allowed off-base passes), one of Langford’s first acts was to require these injured soldiers to scrape the bay floor with glorified razor blades and re-wax it. Soldiers with a variety of injuries, including those who’d recently had surgery, and those with broken bones, were crawling around on their hands and knees, scraping the floor [note: the size of this floor area takes days to scrape]. They completed this task and waxed the floor, only to be told that it wasn’t good enough. The scraping began again, and as of the time of this blog post, continues. In addition, the PTRP occupants are no longer allowed to sit down when not working on the floor, in direct conflict with their medical profiles. The rest of the base is now benefiting from these soldiers’ plight as well as a source of “free labor”. The privates are now required to work at various locations, regardless of the degree of physical activity, regardless of their medical profiles. I’m told, however, that the privates look forward to this because they are treated like human beings at these jobs. So they perform their work without regard for the physical toll it may take on them…anything to get away from the punitive conditions in the PTRP. Oh, and those soldiers who were unfortunate enough to enroll in classes before Langford’s arrival…they’re allowed no time to do their homework. The FTU (Fitness Training Unit) is overflowing, and as a consequence, the PTRP occupants (currently numbering 40+) are stuffed into ½ the space they had before (i.e., ½ a bay). Raids, euphemistically known as “health and welfare” have been instituted, with searches for forbidden items. Last raid, a pack of cigarettes was found…and that soldier’s punishment by Sgt. Langford exceeded the punishments for several AWOL soldiers who returned from Christmas break 6 days late, and the two soldiers whose urine tests were positive for hard drugs like cocaine. Confidential medical records sent for another private were read aloud by Sgt. Langford as he made fun of the soldier.

It appears that Sgt. Langford has found his soul mate. This past weekend, Sgt. Bullock, of the FTU, ordered all 70 members of the FTU and PTRP to arise from their beds every hour from 10PM to 2AM for formation. Anyone who did not comply would be given an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment). Three of the soldiers in the PTRP were on sleep profiles; i.e., mandated 7 hours of sleep per night, and given sleeping medication to ensure it. So their fellow privates had to get them out of bed, help them to dress and stumble out to formation, at 10 PM., 11 PM. 12 AM, 1AM, and 2 AM. Just to keep it interesting, Sgt. Bullock required two uniform changes. That made sure that the exhausted soldiers couldn’t just fall back into bed in their uniforms and rise up for formation. Finally, they were allowed to sleep after 2AM formation, until 5AM. The members of PTRP already have to report for formation five times a day. Now it appears that 5 times a night is acceptable as well. Remember, this is a PHYSICAL REHABILITATION UNIT.

THESE SOLDIERS HAVR DONE NOTHING WRONG. THEY WERE INJURED. They are not supposed to be in detention, and yet they are being punished over and over again. The final irony is that the PTRP families have received invitations to “Family Day Weekends” at Fort Sill for PTRP soldiers (February 3rd, March 10th, and April 14th). This is supposed to boost morale. Perhaps Sgt. Langford will invite the families to watch their injured relatives scrape the floors? Maybe Sgt. Bullock can give everyone a laugh and invite them to a midnight formation of the injured and the drugged? Maybe a plunger party? Perhaps Captain Cunningham will be on hand to explain to the parents of Private Sincere and his two fellow graduates why he lied to them? [We all know why, to get rid of them, but it might be interesting to see him squirm] Perhaps Colonel Fulton could explain why he is allowing this abuse in the name of PHYSICAL REHABILITATION?

If abuse like this of our own soldiers is systemic, is it any wonder that abuses occur with the helpless and weak (as well as the detained) when our soldiers are deployed?

After following all the existing protocols for complaint she could find, and a fax to her congressional representative [no response], Private Sincere’s mother finally decided to go public on this blog. She is concerned for the ramifications for her son. What will happen to him? To his credit, Private Sincere’s frustration with his own situation is nothing compared to his outrage at how the severely injured and helpless are treated. I hope some of you who read this will share his outrage. Imagine that these fine young men are your sons, husbands, brothers, etc. Imagine a boot camp that never ends and pray that your relatives never have to endure it.

Breaking News: Since I posted the above information today, a soldier at Fort Sill who’d been in PTRP for some months cracked up. He’d been returned to training, where he was informed that OSUT (one station unit training) no longer existed for his MOS. He was shuffled back to PTRP, who refused to take him (of course) because they no longer considered him injured. [He had a broken finger, and it healed in such a way that he couldn’t close his fist…his finger sticks straight out.] Four days after being returned to training, he was sent to the FTU [is the FTU becoming a warehouse as well?]. Seven days later, this young man (who had appeared to be stable according to his former peers) silently appeared at noon formation. He was bleeding from self-inflicted cuts and covered with feces he’d smeared upon himself. He was wearing only his combat boots and his socks. He just couldn’t take it any longer. He was hauled away in an ambulance with a police escort. God bless him.

105 Comments:

Blogger Catnapping said...

Contact your congressmen and Senators ASAP. I'm not shitting. Call them as soon as you can.

In ADDITION, send them REGISTERED letters. And COPIES (not originals) of any and all evidence. That includes letters.

That fucking wannabe drill sergeant is breaking the law. What I DON'T understand...is why the troops are allowing this. They obviously have access to the XO, the CO, and the 1st SGT...not to mention Doctors and Counselors.

Surely they must have scheduled appointments with PT or to get casts removed, etc. Tell the idiots to speak UP. Open their fucking mouths, and TELL someone what exactly is going on.

It's against the FUCKING LAW.

12:37 AM  
Blogger Catnapping said...

btw, if this isn't bullshit, contact the congressmen and senators of the troops' (home of record) State, FIRST.

Document, Document, Document. If you can smuggle in disposable cameras, do so. Microcassette recorders would be wonderful, too.

See if any of them have the balls to try it.

12:42 AM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

Thank you for your suggestions. Congressman's office has been notified and said he is not able to get involved unless Pvt. Sincere fills out a form. In addition, their office said they are "only able to make formal inquiry to Federal agencies or military branches of service on behalf of constituents to ensure that proper procedures were followed." They have already complained to their PTRP case medic and doctor, and made trips to the mental health counseling office. The medic was angry, but his chain of command is different than theirs. The doctor merely said that from now on they would have to have appointments in the afternoon, as they were clogging up the waiting room. The mental health counseling staff complained that they were not "PTRP counselors". And so it goes...it seems that no one has the authority (or cares enough) to change this situation. Cameras have been confiscated, along with cell phones. They only have access to pay phones, and then for just a few minutes at a time. That's the only way this has come out, so I look for the phone privileges to go away any time. The 1st Sgt has declined to become involved. The CO is the Colonel Fulton mentioned in the blog. Thanks again for your comments. This is not BS. This is a horrific situation that I'm trying to get SOMEONE to pay attention to before something even worse happens than has already occurred.

12:37 PM  
Blogger Catnapping said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

1:42 PM  
Blogger Catnapping said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

1:47 PM  
Blogger Catnapping said...

Write a letter to his congressmen and SenatorS. As I stated above, make it a registered letter. Make sure that copies of the letter are sent to the Fort Sill Base Commander; the ranking base chaplain, the local paper in Oklahoma, the most prominant OKC newspaper, the private's hometown newspaper (have you contacted that particular newsgroup?); the Red Cross, Amnesty International; PBS; Cspan; MSNBC; and (believe it, or not) FoxNews.

Make certain that every single copy mailed is also registered, and make certain the the cc is documented on each of those letters, so that the Base Commander will know that you are in contact with the the boy's hometown press corps, and his congressmen!

And btw, the complaint need not come from the boy himself. A family member may do so on his behalf. After all, it can argued that (in this situation) he does not have access to his congressman, except through them.

If he does not have family, and you are the only person he's been in contact with (hmm, how did that happen?), then send him something to sign giving you permission to pursue this.

This all seems a little too pat for me. I am a veteran, and every one of my brothers were, too. I have witnessed abuse in the military, and I can guaran-damn-tee that the higher-ups' careers can be ruined if if shit like this happens. They would want it nipped in the bud. So I find it a little odd that nobody on that post is interceding. Very odd.

At least consider the fact that this troop is not telling you the whole truth. I can't help but note that your post contains no dates or times...just general complaints.

You need to take care of that if you hope to be taken seriously here. I see that your profile lists you in media and communications...





p.s. you do not need his permission to contact these organizations.

when i speak of permission, i speak only of filing formal charges of assault and abuse.

2:12 PM  
Blogger iboutaswell said...

I read the preceeding comments with much incredulity; doesn't sound like the Army I knew for 20 years...nor does it sound like the basic training and AIT I went through in '73. While I have no doubts that an isolated incident could occur, I seriously doubt that something of this magnitude could go on for this long without seeing the light of day somehow. There is too much phony sounding stuff here. For one thing, after the abuse scandals of Iraq, I for one don't believe that anyone could think they could cover up something like this.

I agree with the advice; if it is indeed happening, then by all means, contact your congressman and/or senator. As for the need for a form to be filled out...etc, that sounds like a load of bs to me also. In my tenure, I instigated 3 congressional inquiries which all resulted in action within 48 hours.

To me, this whole thing smells of disgruntlement though

4:04 PM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

Thank you for your comments. Perhaps things have changed in the 23 years since you were in Boot Camp? I have documentation in my possession to show that a congressional caseworker was notified by Private Sincere's mother and responded with a form, "It will be necessary for him to fill out a Casework Authorization form like the one attached and return it to me at the address listed below." and "Please understand that we are only able to make formal inquiry to Federal agencies or military branches of service on behalf of constituents to ensure that proper procedures were followed." A followup said "I will forward your communications to the Department of the Army for their information and follow up." As to your comment about isolated incidents, that is precisely what I hope to continue to believe: That the PTRP at Fort Sill is an isolated bad place with bad leaders making bad decisions and having to cover their behinds. I have information that leads me to believe that everything I have posted is true and verifiable. If you classify the events related to me, which I have published, as disgruntlement, then I don't know what else to say.

4:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to meet with Sgt Langford myself. Maybe he would like to be treated the way these soldiers are being treated. All of these soldiers are under doctors care. why are they not speaking out for the soldiers. they are not supposed to be lifting heavy furniture how do they expect them to heal and return to training. soliders dont give up and tell you families to contact there congressman. THIS IS AGAINST THE LAW. I HOPE THE CAPT ON DOWN GET THERE DAY.

5:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

if the congress wait until the soldier file a complaint one of the soldiers might be dead

5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I BELIEVE PEOPLE LIKE LANGFORD AND BULLOCK WILL GET THERE TOAST IN LIFE .YOU DONT TREAT PEOPLE LIKE THEY DO .THEY AREN'T ALWAYS GOING TO BE IN THE MILITARY.SO MOVE ON INTO THE CIVILAN WORLD AND TREAT PEOPLE LIKE AND SEE WHAT YOU GET . I HAVE A CHILD IN THE ARMY .WHO IS AT FORT SILL AND THEY PUT THIER HANDS ON MINE I AM COMIMG TO FORT SILL OKLAHOMA .

6:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a son there and have been told of many stories such as you have noted. He is also in the PTRP unit under medical conditions. He has told me of "things he hasn't seen" either. The family has contacted a lawyer and will be proceeding with more contacts such as our congressman in Louisiana. Please keep up the fight to help these men. They Need IT. These stories ARE NOT BS!!!!!

12:43 PM  
Blogger Runahway Trucker said...

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12:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ARTICLE.5 no one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel,unhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.............................................................ARTICLE.3 everyone has the right to life ,liberty and security of person................ those boys didn't join the army to get the hell beat out of them .this boys are hurt and trying to heal up to go to their next duty station or school or what every next . not to be beat by some sgt langford . so what are the military doing about this .

5:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am A cab driver In OK and I drove three of these BOYS right down I-44 to tha massage parlors for the health and welfare.Sorry to hear these little angels are sooo abused....There enjoying the massages?

9:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so you say you drove three of the boys to a massage parlor .when before it happened or after or do you even no what your talking about. taking up for the drill sergeant . we no the mess happen do you have a child there if not thank you for not your input..a motherS input SIR............a. s.o

4:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

that comment for the cab driver.thank you for nothing...... from a mother who has a chid at fort sill ........

4:42 PM  
Blogger J. M. Branum said...

We have a group here that does counseling of servicemembers on their legal and civil rights. Our website is www.okobjector.org and our phone # is 405-945-1925. We would love to help anyway possible.

3:40 PM  
Anonymous jacqi said...

When I read these articles I really went nuts. Being from a military family, I expect my son to be "made a man", however there is a difference between character building and abuse. My son is in PTRP and he had suggested I look for a sight called suffering at Fort Sill as it described his very first day there. I couldn't find that however I did find this one. I immediately contacted the IP and he confirmed that (with a grain of salt) these stories are somewhat true with a little embellishment of course. However an investigation had been launched and that the sargents in question are no longer there. I spoke to my son last night and he confirmed that as well and said that things are starting to change and it is getting better. His first day was the kneecapping and he was also on the second wave of scraping the wax. His knee injury happened in November and at this time they still have 3 different diagnosis's and have yet to do anything. That as of yesterday is also changing. Master Sargent Dixon was very helpful and I now feel alot better about the situation knowing that he is a man of his word. Within one day he had accomplished what he had promised to me. Thank you for posting this site so that I was able to know what was going on as my son could not tell me anything and able to do something about it.

8:25 AM  
Blogger John said...

The cab driver who assisted in people going AWOL aside (three cheers for breaking military rules for a little extra cash, asshole), my experiences at Fort Knox were shitty as hell. "Profiles," or the paperwork that denoted the limits of what you could physically do, were frequently violated by drill sergeants. In one incident, a drill sergeant jokingly jumped on an injured private and cracked some of his ribs. I personally had hair ripped from my chest by a drill sergeant. Getting six hours of sleep and spending all day doing manual labor and standing in formation is not a sufficient way to "heal."

After I was out, I contacted my congressman. Senator John Cornyn's office actually sparked an investigation with a governing medical unit in the Army. Their conclusion? Well, it pertained to my medical treatment. I really didn't have any complaints there; I was angered at that unit. Their response? "Any claims against the unit should be addressed by the unit." Did the unit ever respond? Nope. I'm currently in correspondence with a lady who has a husband in PTRP at Fort Knox. He's prior service with the Air Force (6 years) and has been in PTRP for 5 months after being injured in the WTC (Warrior Transition Course). In the past few weeks he believes that he's fallen out of love with his wife, and intends to separate her. He spends his days doing 12 hour shifts of guard duties.

From what I've heard about Jackson's PTRP, it isn't too bad. Knox, Sill and Benning all have awful reputations, though. In my six weeks there I witnessed one person desert and two others openly threaten suicide to the point where they were discharged. Not that the drill sergeant who said, "Kill yourself, I don't care. You probably deserve it," was much of a morale booster to dozens of injured and disenchanted privates.

While there are good souls who work the PTRPs around this nation, it is keen to remember an old proverb: the fish stinks from the head. My old commanding officer threatening to put medical paperwork through a paper shredder is case in point. PTRPs are often archaic, festering shitholes that have no business existing in the American military, and some of what goes on there is a disgrace to the hundreds of thousands of men and woman who honorably serve our country. I wish I could say that I've mentioned all the downsides to PTRP, but it's only the tip of the iceberg.

6:20 PM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

Thank you for your response. If you would like to contact me, I can be reached at ptrosss(at)gmail.com.

10:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My little brother is graduating Basic today from Ft Sill - i didn't hear anything about these kind of things, but sounds like it would suck to be hurt in this place. I'd like to see this sorry shit head of a human being locked up for something this inhumane.

6:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was called up for the first gulf war despite the fact that I had a broken ankle and a torn ligament in my knee and was wearing a cast. The colonel in charge of the battalion wanted 100 percent mobilization.

When I got to the mobilization station I was shuffled off to a similar temporary holding unit with other injured soldiers. As an NCO I wasn't treated nearly this badly, but we were basically abandoned til the war ended and then they couldn't dump us out fast enough. Despite having a cast and crutches, I had to supervise civilians and soldiers outdoors in subzero temperatures in snow and ice. Consequently, I fell and reinjured my ankle.

During this whole time you are made to feel like a criminal, as if you had done this to yourself just to get out of something. I have read many articles that say the same things are happening now and talked to a few old buddies who are still on active duty that say the same. Once you are no longer of use to them they quit caring about you.

I am in the American Legion now and we are constantly fighting the cuts to the VA benefits this admnistration has put forth. It is the same mindset at work.

6:37 AM  
Anonymous Amanda said...

Isn't it nice to know how ugly human beings are to one another. Thank you to all the people who have left comments on here about how untrue this can be, thank you for your concern and at least pretending to care. I'm glad that my husband is in Fort Sill right now for his BCT, and people are sitting here today just pushing this issue aside because if it didn't happen to them, then it must not happen at all. If you haven't been there and haven't expirenced this brutality, then don't nay say on this topic. We have men and women who put their life on the line for those of us who cannot go, or choose not to, and you repay them with doubts. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Maybe you don't understand because a loved one isn't away from you, in a place where they could be suffering. Well let me tell you, being 7months pregnant and having my husband be away is one of the hardest things, and to read an article like this and reading all the negative comments or "it can't happen, I've never seens it" is disgusting. I am proud of my husband and all the soldiers, and will pray for them all, and for you disbelieveing people as well.

8:32 AM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

Thank you to everyone who has added their experiences to the comments section on this and other posts. I really appreciate it. The more information that is made public, the harder it is for people to pretend it isn't happening...and maybe someone can effect some positive changes.

Amanda, I hope your husband has graduated and moved on without incident. Thank you for your support.

7:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds a lot like what happened to my son At Ft. Knox. We tried Our Congress women, who did an investigation into the allegations. Of course the Army denied all wrong doing and the army harassed our son even more. My best advice is to get in touch with giright.objector.org We did and was given information that I am convinced saved our son's life

1:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm horrified to read this. My husband is just starting his BCT at Ft. Sill. I'm praying that he will make it through and not become injured in the process. I find it shady that the Ft. Sill Field Artillery website hasn't been updated since 2003. I hope that somewhere something is being done to stop this mistreatment of these poor injured soldiers!

9:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Believe me what has happened at Ft. Sill is the truth. We are trying to make contact with anyone who will listen. Everytime one door opens another closes. I know this for a fact..my son has lived the nightmare with 9 of his "Battle Buddies" and I don't know how they endured what they have been through. They are all destroyed mentally, physically and emotionally. Someone has to be held responsible.

12:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I work in the unit you were "ungraduated" from. Your beloved CPT coo-coo-cunnigham was relieved of his job for bullshit like this. Not every battery goes through the same shit you did. I make it a point to get rid of soldiers who are mentally unstable...I do the paperwork to ensure they don't go to PTRP that they get out immediately. PTRP is an abused program with well intentions. COL Fulton is also gone now. I'm sorry you went through this, if you had been in my battery, you would have been taken care of as far as injuries go, our DS's don't play when it comes to broken bones.

12:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You need to get hold of COL Uberti, if that doesn't work, keep calling JAG and IG until you find someone who wants to work for you. I had a similar experience on the officer side and I just kept calling IG and JAG until I got some answers. I had about 30 people working on my case and only 1 who was actually doing the work.

12:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am very worried... My son signed up for the Army -- I had talked him out of it 2 times prior and this time he went and was sworn in and told me 7 days before he left for MEPS. He has now, as of todays date 9/17/06 been at Fort Sill for only 3 days. He snuck into some building yesterday and called me and told me to get him out of there, help him get out of there. (He had called his wife too.) I have done a lot of research, shocked to read about hazing and abuse, knew nothing about fort sills horrible reputation.. Monday I need to start working on how to get my boy home safely and alive. 2 days? now, why would a 20 yr old man who was insistant upon joining the Army want to leave after 2 days? He said he hadn't even started bootcamp yet...

1:26 AM  
Blogger alex said...

I am a former Drill Sergeant and a current Recruiter. I trained thousands of soldiers at FT Sill recently. The problem isn't "trainee abuse" as this page would have you believe. It's an awful command. The current BDE Commander was a Bn Commander when I was there.
This commander usurped the DS's authority then and continues to do so now as a Bde commander. I have heard countless stories of soldiers(trainees) losing money and rank, because the only recourse a DS has now is to give an article 15 for bad behavior. Apparrently the push ups, mule kicks and mountain climbers you and I did are cruel and unusual punishment.
Trainees know this. The bad ones use it to their advantage. We take such good care of them that we rehabilitate them and pay them until it's time to go home.
We are a nation at war. We are training these kids( I recruit them so I know that they are kids) for war. All too often they come back and say that BCT was too soft.
Weeding out the uncommited saves lives. I'm a recruiter and I know it's about numbers. But if you are a combat soldier, do you want a number next to you? I have graduated "soldiers" as a DS that I wouldn't trust to wash my car, because Ft Sill said they met the standard. Now I have to trust other soldiers lives to them.
Those that complain about maltreatment and having no dignity, all too often are the "shit house lawyers", "I was tricked into joining" types. Nothing is their fault. I see them daily returning into my office wanting back in. The excuses vary.
Having been A Drill Sergeant, I've seen it all. They forgot that they had athsma, ADD, heart murmurs and many other conditions before BCT. Day 1 they remember these conditions and want something done about it so they can go home. They lied to the US Government. Probably with the assistance of a recruiter, but still where does the responsibility lie?
Other recruits decide that they made a wrong decision and all of a sudden are suicidal, gay or crazy. They tell other trainees that this is the way out. I have seen this. Any DS has seen this. We waste money and time on them.
You have to have done the job to undersatnd.
The Army is the finest greatest institution that is made up of the finest greatest people in our society. We(soldiers) sacrifice our ambitions daily so that others don't have to.
If nothing else, give us the benefit of the doubt. Maybe place blame on the individual. In my 11 plus years in the Army, I know that if I was punished, it probably had something to do with something my friends or I did.
Is the concept of responsibilty lost on todays society

10:40 PM  
Blogger alex said...

Having been at Ft Sill from 2003 to 2005 and seeing PTRP, I have to tell you that this is BS. PTRP soldiers (If you can call them soldiers) did nothing, had no respect or bearing and 9 times out of 10 were fraudulent enlistments that should be in jail.
As Bde policy, regular Drill Sergeants were not allowed to interact with them and PTRP Soldiers duties, if any were strictly limited.
If these soldiers or trianees were made to work "scraping floors or washing windows", is that worse than the regular training other trainees were doing for the same pay?
I have been there and have seen unfortunate instances. but most of the type of people you advocate are malingerers and are getting a paycheck as well as free medical, meals and room and board despite the fact that most of them are quitters.
I'd hate to see how a young man who ran on to the beaches of Normandy knowing he would die, having had no bonus, student loan repayment or GI Bill would view this situation.

11:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I used to work at the reception station at Fort Sill let me tell you after serving 4 years in the Army I am glad to be out. Though some Drill Sergeants do get out of hand, not all are bad. I have a few friends who would do anything to help a soldier, but the government has put into place some regulations that make it impossible to get out even when bad things happen. The army is a messed up system and it needs to be corrected. I feel sorry for all the soldiers who have to go through bad hings just to make a difference to the country. Oh and I remember the naked feces guy, that was an interesting day.

4:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh and I agree with Alex, some of the PTRP FTU and PFU soldiers are complete pieces of shit and are disrespectful to Drill sergeants. If you think you can't handle everything the Army throws at you, DON'T JOIN. If you get on the bus at OKC airport to go to Sill and then decide you don't want to be there, DO NOT GET OFF THE BUS, THE ARMY DOESN'T HAVE YOU UNTIL YOU SIGN INTO RECEPTION. JUST GO BACK TO THE AIRPORT AND PAY YOUR OWN WAY BACK HOME, NO HARM NO FOUL. AND BY ALL MEANS DO NOT LISTEN TO THE RECRUITER, HE LIES.

4:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am currently in the process of trying to help my son. The original post here is EXACTLY the same thing as we are going through right now...

I can't believe this.

I am scared.

I've already contacted Senators and Congressmen, and am getting help from other sources as well, but I am still afriad for my son.
Fort Sill keeps saying everything is ok to the Senator and Pentagon Liason and everything is not ok.

Fort Sill is hell on earth.

7:03 PM  
Anonymous special weapons gunner said...

Fort Sill is Hell? I had the fortune to be on profile when we had to do our "15"mile road march.My fellow trainees took turns carrying my pack for me...until the drill sergeant saw. He made me feel like the worthless cry baby piece of shit I was being. I straightened my act out in a hurry, and am glad for the drill sergeants correction to my character as a soldier. Ft. Sill is nothing but a place, and boot camp ain't nothin'.
Boot camps get easier with the passing years, not harder. The guys who were in years before me had it a lot tougher than I did in '82. But of course, I was at Ft. Silly to be an artilleryman, where (at least when I was in) women were not allowed. Sounds fishy, but good luck getting your kids out and back home where they belong.

6:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My son is supposed to go to Ft. Sill in a week... After reading this he will not be going no matter what!!

3:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm just curious, were you there to see all of this?

11:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My husband is leaving to Fort Sill in May 2007, I have no doubt that he will be getting the best training he can. I know some people like to blow things out of proportion. After all, it is basic training...and they need all the training they can get, to protect us. They can't be softies out in the battle fields. I would like to hear from a soldier who came from there and experience this, to tell me if they really treated them this badly.

11:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fort Sills is not the only base with issues.I think all the Army Training bases are experiencing difficulties when it comes to injured privates. I don't know if it a lack of training, for the Drill Sgts, or if the Army has started enlisting the criminal element as they did back in the old days. Back when they were so desperate that they would take anyone. Remember during Nam when a young man would get in trouble with the law and the judge would give him a choice, Jail or the Army?
I am ex military and have always been very proud of our military. I went through basic training with the Air Force. My daughter joined the Army. She was sent to Fort Leonardwood. She ended up with a stress fracture in Basic. At first she was put in some kind of hold over unit. When they decided she was healed enough they sent her back to the unit but she was not suppose to run. A Drill Sgt yelled at her and belittled her and told her she was not a team player if she did not run up this hill. She tried to tell him she was on a profile and he kept yelling at her any ways. When she got back to the barracks she called me crying telling me what had happened and that she broke again. While she was talking to me the Drill Sgt was yelling at her again. She hung up. I did not hear from her for a long time I called her unit to try to talk to the commander. I got some civilian who was rude and tried to belittle my daughter as if she was a malingerer. I don't understand how these people can consider them malingerers when they have xrays showing broken bones. I was not satified with his response to me. I made some other phone calls to an IG and the recruiter, wanting to know for certain where she was since I had not heard from her and if she was OK. I told them being ex military and knowing that there is a war going on I fully understood the risk my daughter was taking. That she could get sent to Iraq and be seriously injured if not killed. But I certainly do not expect her to be permantly crippled or worse by our own people right here in the US. I got a call back a couple days later and told that they "THINK" she is out in the field and that is why I had not heard from her. I was astounded. This is our military and they don't know where one of their troops are. This is the ARMY that leaves no one behind? If they do not know where their troops are I think they will be leaving some behind. I never heard of such a thing. Also what is running through my mind is how can she be out in the field with a broken hip. I was frantic at this point. I had no one I could talk to or go to. Ft Leonardwood sent me what looked like a nice letter telling me they were there to help and that they were there to answer questions and to call if, as a parent I had concerns. They could not even tell me where she was let alone if she was OK. It ended up she had been sent to a program called Warrior Rehab. That really turned into a nightmare. I was told by her recruiter and I had also felt that the military would help build her self esteem. Boy was I wrong. Once you are injured you are worthless to the Army and they let you know it constantly. They were constanly being called names and ridiculed. She was constantly telling me about people that were going AWOL to get out of that unit not to mention the suicide attempts. She on a couple of occassions had to sit up and keep an eye on someone that was suicidal. These people were often denied a psychiatrist because the Drill Sgts said they were just acting loony to get out. One of these people came back to our home state for a leave and ended up in the local hospital because he tried to commit suicide rather than go back. My daughter was also telling me about all these stress fractures and I see them listed here in other peoples blogs. I guess one of my questions is why are so many of these yough healthy kids suffering from so many stress fractures? My other question is why are they being denied timely treatment for these problems. Why are Drill Sgts allowed to get away with not following Drs profiles. It took my daughter one year to get through a nine week basic training. The only way she was finally able to get out of that Hell Hole of mental abuse and neglect was to save up and down a bunch of pain killers so she could do the run that was expected of her. Once she did that they sent her to Fort Sam Houston. I was relieved she was out of there and hopefully would be home in a few months trained as a Medic. That was not to be because the medic unit she was in had Drill Sgts that were not much better. You would think they would have a little more compassion for someone that is injured. Her medical records got lost or something during the restationing process. She tried to tell her Drill Sgt the problems she had had with stress fractures. He made her run anyways with a heavy pack and she refractureed this time all the way through. She was on crutches and told not to run or carry packs over ex pounds. They would push the limit with her and make her carry packs just shy of that weight. and go up and down steps to change uniforms over and over again as punishment. What she called "caping". Her and some of the other" cripples" , as they were referred to, were sitting one day and another girl was starting some kind of commotion. The First Sgt came out and started yelling at her. When he did not get the response he wanted he body slammed her to the hard service. The other Drill Sgts started laughing and no one did anything to stop the attack. The cripples were told that if they were asked, to say they saw nothing and not to talk to the reporters. When my daughter became pregnant I not only had to fear for her well being but now my grandchild also. She was suffering from morning sickness, which is alleviated by keeping small amounts of food in your stomach. She was not even allowed to keep crackers or anything. She was throwing up constantly and they would yell at her to hurry up. They would be three blocks away from the chow hall where othe batallions were already standing in line to eat. Her drill Sgt would tell them they had half an hour to run down there and eat. Needless to say there were numerous people that did not get to eat of which one was always my daughter since she was on crutches. The other people would have to resort to MREs, which was fine for them. Just the smell of them cooking made my daughter throw up. She was dropped off one day a long way from her unit for some kind of appointment. When she inquired about getting back the Capt told her to walk. When she explained her condition with the fractures and being sick and pregnant the guy told her,"Well people loose their babies in the first trimester." Again because of my concern about her well being I called this bases IG. My daughter was called in and ridiculed and bullied for my calling. I did not call again. For the person that is saying "why aren't these people speaking up" I will tell you why. It is the same as being in prison. They have complete control of your life. These are jsut kids and they are scared. These people can really hurt them and make their lives miserable. I kept trying to encourage my daughter to go to the JAG. These people are being denied mental health care, proper medical care on a timely basis, they are being bullied into not using the chain of command and being asked what they want to go to a lawyer for and denied if they think a complaint is going to be filed. My daughter did not complain. I did and it came back on her. She is home safe now but has not finished her AIT Training. She is supposed to go back after seh has the baby. I say no way. I do not trust them. I had to worry for over a year. Many sleepless nights. Phone calls to the various bases did nothing to alleviate that fear. It only made it worse knowing that she was being punished for my phone call. I am still very proud of our military and what they do and stand for but as far as the Army Training units I will never forgive them for the treatment of our young kids and especially my daughter and unborn grandchild. If my grandchild has any problems whatso ever I will personally hold them responsible. Untill I see something in the news showing that these problems are being worked on I will advise any parent of a child or that child themselves to avoid the Army at all costs. That includes Reserves and Guards as well as they are sent to these active duty training bases. The Army needs to be investigating these problems instead of covering them up like they did Walter Reed. I don't think that every one at these facilities are bad but it only takes a few and a few that keep getting away with it and the problem grows. To the mother that said she is worried about her son that got injured and is headed to one of these units you have reason to worry but be careful about the calls you make. They could be used against him. The reason I have written this anonymously is my daughter may have to go back. They have already shown me they have no problems taking stuff that I do out on her. If it was just me I had to worry about I would be yelling this stuff from the highest mountains for everyone to hear and going to who ever I needed to to make sure these problems are addressed. It is my daughter I have to worry about being hurt and I am not as willing to put her in jeapordy any more over this. Avoid the Army

2:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm wondering....are there any cases of abuse of Med-Hold soldiers in the Navy/Marines/Air Force? Some "disbelievers" claim the hurt and abused soldiers in the Army are "pieces of shit"..."blowing things out of proportion" and so forth. Then there would be "exagerated stories" from "pissed off" soldiers in the other brances right?? I doubt the Army is the only branch that is so unlucky to have the burden of such "lies".

Sarcasim.....!!!!

I am a Med-Hold survivor. I am not a piece of shit, I am not a malingerer or liar. I was put under the care of "PROFESSIONALS" that abused their power. I wittnessed suicide attempts, physical abuse and sexual missconduct from NCOs, I saw HIGHLY MOTIVATED soldiers that wanted to go to Iraq, go Airborne/Ranger/Officer/Etc who enter the Med-Hold and within 2 months waste away to just zombies in uniform. Are they all liars and disgruntled too?? They sure as hell are now after going thru what I went thru! If we are worthless and pieces of shit...then the Army should just let us go. Why put us thru this?? I spent 9 months in Basic....9 MONTHS! The "typical" Basic soldier has a shitty day and they think "oh well...I graduate in X ammount of weeks/days". I would deal with abuse daily in Med-Hold and think, "When can I get away?? Will this EVER end?!"

I wanted to go to Iraq, I wanted to serve. Not anymore. I am ashamed of what they did to me and the other Med-Holds. The Army isn't like "Full Metal Jacket". The Army isn't so bold with showing what they do. It's hidden. Those of you that think it's all lies...wait till your son/daughter gets hurt in Basic.

8:13 AM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

For a variety of personal reasons, this blog has been inactive for a while. That's about to change -PD

Anonymous said: PTRP is an abused program with well intentions. COL Fulton is also gone now. I'm sorry you went through this, if you had been in my battery, you would have been taken care of as far as injuries go, our DS's don't play when it comes to broken bones.
Pvt Sincere has healed after a fashion, and is in Iraq with his unit. He has a "permanent" no run profile and an ankle that will always "turn over" as his souvenir from Fort Sill. You can't possibly wish as much as I do that he'd be in your unit and avoided permanent injury. Thank you for your comments. They give me hope for others.
Another Anonymous said: "I am a former Drill Sergeant and a current Recruiter. I trained thousands of soldiers at FT Sill recently. The problem isn't "trainee abuse" as this page would have you believe. It's an awful command. The current BDE Commander was a Bn Commander when I was there... Those that complain about maltreatment and having no dignity, all too often are the "shit house lawyers", "I was tricked into joining" types. Nothing is their fault. I see them daily returning into my office wanting back in. The excuses vary.
Having been A Drill Sergeant, I've seen it all. They forgot that they had athsma, ADD, heart murmurs and many other conditions before BCT. Day 1 they remember these conditions and want something done about it so they can go home. They lied to the US Government. Probably with the assistance of a recruiter, but still where does the responsibility lie?...You have to have done the job to undersatnd...Is the concept of responsibilty lost on todays society.

Since your entire remarks are visible on this page, I didn't need to excerpt them all. First, if you read all the entries on this blog, you'll know that those trainees I was talking about were all injured, had x-rays, MRIs, etc. You know very well that's what it takes to get into a PTRP. I wasn't even addressing "trainee abuse"... but INJURED trainee abuse. I'm sure you're right. There are undoubtedly young men and women who enlist in the Army and have prior injuries or conditions that should keep them out. Yet, if a recruiter encourages or assists a recruit in defrauding the US Army, aren't they equally responsible? The answer is no, of course, because you recruiters have become like the unethical used car salesmen of the Army. But that's another subject altogether.
That said, the trainees I've posted about and the NY Times & Counterpunch wrote about wanted nothing more than to complete their training and go on to their first duty stations.
These young men (no women at Fort Sill) are those who left home whole and healthy, and got injured through no fault of their own. The BLAME comes in when those INJURED trainees are abused, not rehabilitated or discharged. Where the BLAME comes in is when injured trainees are kept for retention purposes for up to 14 months! I'm aware that it's due to the retention program, wherein COs' points, promotions, etc. all depend on the number of trainees still considered "active" -- even if they are on crutches, have a groin hernia, head injury, separated shoulder, broken collar bone, fractures in their ankles or feet, flesh-eating disease from a recluse spider bite gone crazy, or gall bladder surgery (all true and verifiable injuries just from that one period in Fort Sill's PTRP.) I would turn around and ask you the same question you asked in your comments: Is the concept of responsibilty lost on today's society?
alex said...
"Having been at Ft Sill from 2003 to 2005 and seeing PTRP, I have to tell you that this is BS. PTRP soldiers (If you can call them soldiers) did nothing, had no respect or bearing and 9 times out of 10 were fraudulent enlistments that should be in jail.
As Bde policy, regular Drill Sergeants were not allowed to interact with them and PTRP Soldiers duties, if any were strictly limited."

As with Anonymous above, your remarkes are still available on this page, so I didn't cut and paste your entire entry.
I can't speak to 2003-2005, though certainly one of those "unfortunate instances" would have been the death of an injured trainee who was housed in PTRP. I think that's extremely "unfortunate". I can only tell you that in late 2005 and on into the Spring of 2006, all of the things I've documented here were true. In addition, I'd suggest you try moving bunks and wall lockers with a hernia in your groin...or scraping a floor with stitches in your knee, and so on. They didn't go into the Army with those injuries. And unless the recruiters and contempt filled bullies such as yourself have crystal balls (no pun intended), it's unlikely that you could inform the trainees that they are going to be injured, thus making it a fraudulent elistment. Also, please see the other Anonymous just below your comments...he said, "Oh and I remember the naked feces guy, that was an interesting day." These are not trainees who didn't want to be in the Army...they are trainees who were INJURED during training and were SUPPOSED to be RECUPERATING. Thank you for your support for your fellow soldiers. Oh, I forgot. You're BETTER than them, aren't you. Doesn't take much, does it, to feel superior to those who can't at the time defend themselves, now does it...now what is the definition of bully again? Hmmm.
Thank you special weapons gunner for your comments. I was not blogging about basic training, but about trainees who were injured and sent to the PTRP unit at Fort Sill.
And yet ANOTHER anonymous said:
"My husband is leaving to Fort Sill in May 2007, I have no doubt that he will be getting the best training he can. I know some people like to blow things out of proportion. After all, it is basic training...and they need all the training they can get, to protect us. They can't be softies out in the battle fields. I would like to hear from a soldier who came from there and experience this, to tell me if they really treated them this badly."
All I have to say to you is that if you read the other entries on here, you would see first person accounts, written to me, from them, as well as the reports that were given to me at the time. Once again, I have been blogging about INJURED trainees at Fort Sill and other bases...the PTRP and/or med hold facilities, NOT BASIC TRAINING per se. If you have been lucky, your husband has not been injured and all will be well.
Another Anonymous said: "I am ex military and have always been very proud of our military. I went through basic training with the Air Force. My daughter joined the Army. She was sent to Fort Leonardwood. She ended up with a stress fracture in Basic" -- Thank you for your story. Please contact me at ptrosss(at)gmail.com.
Another Anonymous said...
"I'm wondering....are there any cases of abuse of Med-Hold soldiers in the Navy/Marines/Air Force? Some "disbelievers" claim the hurt and abused soldiers in the Army are "pieces of shit"..."blowing things out of proportion" and so forth... I am a Med-Hold survivor. I am not a piece of shit, I am not a malingerer or liar. Thank you for your comments. Please contact
me at ptrosss(at)gmail.com

9:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was in the AF Reserves and transferred to the Army Reserves to enter the Warrant Officer Program. I was told I needed to attend a four week training school at Ft Knox, KY which would teach me to transition from the Air Force to the Army. I arrived in Ft Knox, KY on 22 Feb 04 and after being treated like a new recruit (I had over 20 years of Active duty, Guard and Reserve time and was an E-6) in the reception batallion, on March 2nd I was sent down range for my training. So much for all the information I was given by my recruiter that this was a "gentleman's course" and it would entail daily PT in the mornings and the remainder of the day spent in a classroom setting where we would learn the difference between the AF and Army way of doing things. When we arrived down range (the trail of tears as it was called) carrying all our luggage and bags, we were told by our recruiters to bring all our uniforms and enough civilian clothes for 4 weeks etc, many people were injured just trying to carry all their stuff the mile they had to walk with it. We arrived and were assigned a company and the drill sgts for each company took their people and started the processing. This included making everyone take their rank off their uniforms and telling them they were all privates. Then we were smoked for approximately 2 hours while one of the drill sgts in my company yelled obsenities at all the females telling us we wanted to be in "his Army" we better not expect to be treated like women we wanted to act like men and join the Army then he would treat us like men. The verbal abuse and smoking was moved into the building where we were made to run up and down the stairs of an old WWII barracks for about an hour (we were housed on the third floor). We were finaly allowed to go to bed at about midnight only to be awakend at 3am to go out into the snow and ice and do PT. The room I was sharing (all the males slept in an open bay) the females (6 of us were divided up into 2 rooms with 3 of us in each room) with 2 other females had a broken window and the window would not close and the heat did not work, so our night was spent trying to stay warm because it snowed and the snow was blowing into our room. I tried to talk to the drill sgt the next morning about the window and he told me to stop complaining the soldiers in Iraq would love to have some snow. We went out on the PT pad and because of the snow and ice, there were patches of ice on the PT pad. During PT that morning, I managed to slip on a patch of ice and fell badly. The fall herniated two discs in my neck, fractured 3 vertebrae in my back and dislocated my knee. I was taken to the troop clinic and the PA took x-rays of my back and said, "I don't see anything on the X-ray, but yeah it is swollen and so is your knee". I was given motrin and put on crutches and told I would be moved to PTRP to give myself time to heal. It took the batallion I was in over 7 days to process the paperwork to move me to PTRP, during this time I was on crutches and when I went to the chow hall if any of my "battle buddies" tried to carry my tray or help me they were punished for it. I eventually was sent to PTRP and upon my arrival there I was told I had to participate in physical therapy during the day. I met with the Physical Therapist at our building and told her there was something wrong with my knee and back and I wanted MRIs done. After 2 weeks she finaly relented and ordered an MRI on my knee. She would not order an MRI on my back because the budget was short and she felt certain I had just pulled a muscle in my back and if I did weight training to stregthen the muscles I would be okay. The MRI showed according to her that I had a bone spur and that is why my knee was hurting and swelling up. I told her I disagreed with her diagnosis and wanted to see an orthopedic surgeon. After several more weeks, during which time I was required to lift weights and use the stationary bike to rehab my back and knee, I was seen by an orthopedic doctor. He agreed that my symptoms were not normal for a bone spur and scheduled an arthogram. The surgery revealed that my knee cap had been dislocated and since I had been made to rehab it for approximately 6 weeks it had shredded the cartlidge in my knee. The surgeon put my kneecap back where it belonged and cleaned up the cartlidge and I was sent home on convalescent leave because Ft Knox had no place to house me that didn't require me to climb stairs. While I was home on convalescent leave I went to the hospital at Ft Sill and complained about my back pain, I was refered to a nuerosurgeon who ordered an MRI and an electrogram and discovered the herniated discs, fractured vertebrae and nerve damage in my left arm. I returned to Ft Knox with all my medical documents in hand and was immediately told that I had no right to be seen at Ft Sill for my back when I was on convalesant leave for my knee surgery and that I was going to be made to pay for the medical care I received from the civilian doctor that Ft Sill refered me to etc. I contacted my father, who is a retired E-9 and he called out to Ft Sill and told them what was going on. The doctors at Ft Sill contacted the doctors at Ft Knox and told them that I was covered under Tri Care because I was on active duty status and was on convalescent leave at my home of record and was therefore supposed to use the closest military hospital to me which was Ft Sill and it was not limited to my knee. I wasn't treated too badly in PTRP, mainly because I was a female so I was housed in a seperate building, and because I was an E-6; however, I did witness one private who had just had knee surgery, he was on crutches when a drill sgt playing around, jumped on him causing him to fall and frature his wrist. Another private had cancer, he would come back from khemo treatments and while he was sick and feeling wrung out, I would hear drill sgts scream at him to stand up when they entered his room, I heard them telling him he was worthless and a loser and at one point a drill sgt told him he shouldn't waste the governments money on khemo he was such a waste he should just let the cancer kill him. There was an E-8 who was supposed to be the medical liason between the soldiers in PTRP and the hospital, this was one sorry excuse for an NCO, he would belittle soldiers, claim they were not really sick or injured, he would make sexual comments to all the female soldiers, he would shred medical paperwork, cancel appointments without telling soldiers or reschedule the appointment then when the soldier didn't make the new appointment because they didn't know it had been changed this E-8 would yell, scream, cuss and humiliate the soldiers in front of the entire formation. I spent one month in PTRP after returning from my convalescent leave and was moved to HHC to await my med board. I saw the same things happening at HHC. Soldiers who were too broken to continue training and were being discharged were being made to scrub floors on their hands and knees, sent out to perform base details, made to mow grass and strip and wax floors. Again being a female, living in a different building and being an E-6 I didn't have to put up with alot of the crap the privates did. Now I will admit, I saw several privates who were not injured, they arrived at Ft Knox, realized this wasn't what they thought it would be and quickly started acting out to get discharged from the Army. There were also soldiers in PTRP that were milking the system because they didn't want to be in the Army and were hoping if they couldn't pass the PT test, eventually they would be discharged. But those were the exceptions not the rules and I could never understand how someone could be expected to heal in those conditons. I have since been medically discharged and receive 40% disability from the VA, my husband who was also at Ft Knox with me and ended up fracturing his hip, managed after many months to return to the WTC program and complete it. He then went to Ft Jackson for AIT and from there to Korea. He is now back stateside and currently stationed at Ft Sill. I see how he gets treated as a permanent party soldier at Ft Sill and it drives me crazy. I look at the Army and Marines screaming for people, paying outrageous bonus money for new recruits and I wonder why it is that the Air Force and Navy are turning people away. I wish the Army and Marines would take a lesson from the Air Force and Navy, treat the people you have with dignity and respect and maybe you wouldn't have so many ready to get out at the end of their enlistment.

A former Air Force and Army NCO

4:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't tell you for sure if much has changed, but I can tell you that the trainee abuse is real, and it's definitely not limited to Sill.

I enlisted in the Army in Spring of 2005 to serve my country and try and provide a better life for my family. I signed up as a PFC, with a 98X MOS (as near as I can tell from present information, that MOS is now inactive, and the modern equivalent is 98C--Linguist.)

I was to spend 9 weeks at BCT at Ft. Leonard Wood, and 53 weeks at DEFLANG, in Monterrey, CA, studying Arabic. Following that, I was to go to 6 weeks of intel training at Huachuca.

Needless to say, I was excited.

The excitement diminished a little after our "shark attack" on Day Zero, but I was determined to make the best of it. We would march in formation past some of the soldiers from RHC (Rehab and Holding Company), and our DS's would make sure to remind us not to talk to them. They were washouts, and not good for anything. We listened, and we continued in our training.

Then I became one of the "washouts".

I was rappelling down Warrior Tower, and there was an "equipment failure". My ankle was badly injured, and I was on crutches. It didn't stop the DS's from trying to push me into any training they could, regardless of my profile. The verbal abuse is just astounding, and they would actually encourage the other privates in my platoon to ostracize me. While some did, I'm happy to say that quite a few refused to do so.

The abuse continued, and eventually, I confided to a battle buddy that I'd rather be dead than have to listen to any more of it. Well, the well meaning private went to our DS, and next thing I knew, I was stripped of my dog tags, shoe laces, and belt, and sent before a counselor. He asked me questions like, "Have you ever been depressed?" and, "Have you ever wished misfortune on someone?" Well, hell, who hasn't? I said about as much in reply, and all of a sudden, I'm a 5-17: a headcase, among the enlisted.

If I thought the abuse was bad before, the abuse coupled with the ostracism was even worse. Even the privates who previously tried to stand by me took a few steps back; only three privates stayed in contact with me through the whole thing.

I was told papers were being processed for my discharge, and that I would be put on work detail until they came through. I wasn't happy, but that was the way the chips were falling. Not long after that--just long enough to get acclimated to my new role as a menial laborer--I was sent out into the field for a 72 hour FTX.

I came back from the experience feeling better--more like a soldier, I guess is the way I would describe it. The night we returned, I found my gear on top of my locker, and it was explained that I was going to be recycled to Day Zero. Back to the beginning of all of the abuse.

I don't remember exactly what happened, but I remember reaching for my razor, and I remember having to have 8 privates hold me down on the floor of the barracks while one went for the DS at the CQ desk.

I was hospitalized overnight, although I spent most of it on the floor in one of the hallways, because, as one of the staff put it, they had to make room for soldiers who were really injured, not "slicers who were looking for a night away from the barracks."

When I came back to the barracks the next morning, one of my DS's was waiting for me. He asked me the names of my kids. When I tried to tell him, he interrupted me. "Forget about them. You're not worth them. You might as well be dead already." One of the other DS's offered to go and get a rope so I could hang myself.

I was sent to RHC after another 4 weeks in Supply, doing work details (as they had originally told me I would be doing), and after being brought before the Company Cdr. and told all the things I would not be able to do in the civilian world after my discharge (hold public office, get a government job, vote, own a firearm--all of which I have since learned was bullshit.)

I spent another 4 weeks in RHC, which--unlike Sill, apparently--was fairly decent in comparison. The 1st Sgt. called all the new transfers into his office on the day I got there and said some things I'll never forget.

"Privates, I want to tell you one thing that you probably haven't heard since you got here. You are soldiers. You voluntarily joined the Army during a war to serve your country. That makes you a braver, stronger person than every one of those civilians who never served and might question you return home."

While I have not had a recurrence of attempted suicide since my return, not day goes by that I don't regret the way things turned out. The psychological impact my brief military career had is immeasurable. Despite all that I did experience, I still have a strong affinity for the military, especially for the Army, and I have faith that those who would seek to abuse the people who give of themselves freely to serve their country will one day receive justice.

1:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am curious, has anyone contacted you about similar situations who had children at Great Lakes Navy RTC?
I am also seeking information on those injured who were separated on pre-existing mental conditions after having difficulty from healing from their injuries (i.e. stress fractures, shin splints etc)

10:25 AM  
Anonymous Drill SGT. said...

Let me break it down for all of you very simple like. Trainee abuse is part of BCT. NO I am not saying it is right but this is the military (NOT) the boy scouts. I am a Drill Sergeant located at Fort Sill. I see you people crying about the (SHARK) attack. This is to evaluate the new soldier’s emotional state. This is to make them feel they have no control. The purpose of BCT is to break down there civilian habits and mold them into SOLDIERS. Do you really want a SOLDIER over in IRAQ huddled in the fetal position not able to fight due to you so called Americans who don't want us to front load them with stress. If that’s the case lets lower (OLD GLORY) and raise the French Flag. Bottom line I am molding fighting machines who will survive IRAQ. That is my whole mission. I want all of my soldiers I have trained to come back to their families and loved ones. I have been over and back from there. I made it due to my training at boot camp. The training is tough so we can weed out the weak minded. Plain and simple. God bless our Troops who fear of the death everyday so you may have the right to bitch and complain. "HOOAH"

7:43 AM  
Anonymous Drill Sergeant said...

I know alot of you all are parents of future soldiers. So I will write with passion. Your soldier has signed on the line stating that he wants to be a member of the U.S. Army. This entitles him or her the right of (No torture).

A word you all have stated again and again. I (DON'T) condone trainee abuse. I am a very firm fare and consistant Drill Sergeant with all of my PVT's. I hold them all accountable for their action as a whole. I never single a soldier out I correctively train the whole Platoon as a whole for ones mistakes. Some of you are going to cry about this but what organization did you really think your soldier was joining. We are makinf soldiers who will hopefully survive the WAR. Would you rather us Drill Sergeants not front load them with mental and phyisical stress to the point when they arrive to IRAQ and are told to assault an objective to take out a insurget who has killed civilians with IED and bombs with enemy machine gun fire raining down all around them , their buddy's getting hit left and right. This is a real situation. it happens everyday over there in IRAQ. I know you are all reeading the bad things from this Blog. Yes there are shit head who are Drill Sergeant, but there are alot of us who really do care and admire these young men and women who have volenteered in a time of war to serve their country. As for the PTRP platoon's. They aren't even near BCT and who ever told you all that Soldiers families could join family day was dead wrong in telling you that. The PTRP platoons were deveploed to take soldier out of training and rehabilitate them. That means they are no longer with a BCT training cycle or even in a Battery. They are waiting to get back into training. As I read more and more of some of our Blogs I laugh. Have any of you even surved in the military. All I see is crying and more crying about the LAW. If the Soldiers are really mentally and physically scared about this situation they know the steps and procedures they need to go through. But I don't see them writing and crying about this situation. Lets face it shit happens people make mistakes and yes there are some dirt balls out there that think our (ROUND BROWN) ie.. Drill Sergeant hat is a hat of power and they can do what ever they want. But I garentee with our new BCT commander at Fort Sill the noose has been established for those individuals who think that.

8:17 AM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

Dear Drill Sergeant,

I thank you for taking the time to comment here. I don't believe you took the time to read the entire blog, though.

Understandable since you are undoubtedly busy with your Privates. If you had read the whole thing, you would know that all this fuss and furor is about physical and mental abuse of INJURED trainees. It's not about Basic Training itself.

You are correct in saying that PTRP soldiers are not housed with BCT (Basic Combat Training). As of today, I don't know where they are housed at Fort Sill. But I do know that as of April of 2006, they certainly were housed in the same building as the FTU (Fitness Training Unit), with trainees being held back until they passed their PT test. Their battery was 95th, which includes, as you know, Reception, where new soldiers are processed. The PTRP-ers were very much still in "training status". That didn’t have to be a bad thing. But apparently you all believe that when someone gets injured, whatever the medical people say, they are actually just lazy.

Perhaps you are familiar with the pressures of retention of trainees? I'm aware that your promotion points and evaluations depended at that time on retention. What was essentially done in several of the guys' cases that wound up in PTRP was that they were graduated...that's right. OSUT (One Station Unit Training) They had already completed their AIT as well. They walked up on the stage, etc. after taking an alternate PT test given by their Drill Sergeants while injured (walking in a certain time instead of running), expecting to be heading to their first duty stations. I know it happened. I have photos of the ceremony. Be glad to share them with you. Then, when they were waiting in line for us family members to take them home on leave, they were yanked out of line and told that they would be going to PTRP. That way, you see, your command was able to say that they had 100% graduation, and 100% retention. These guys joined others who had been in the PTRP for up to 14 months! Take Mathew Scarano, for example. When he arrived at Fort Sill, he was a healthy, normal young man. He turned both 20 and 21 in Fort Sill's PTRP, and then he died...after your PTRP apparently turned him into a prescription drug addict rather than discharge him or send him to a post where they might have actually had the knowledge to treat his injuries. He was a PFC by the time he died, and that happened about a year after another young man died in your PTRP. Of note, the medication records for Scarano (the Drills give out the meds) suddenly turned up missing, never recovered. I guess your command couldn't explain that Scarano was actually a victim of a retention program gone wrong? Maybe you’d like to tell their families how funny you think it is that their sons died in Fort Sill’s PTRP…I mean, you do think it’s funny…your words are below.

You said, "The PTRP platoons were developed to take soldier out of training and rehabilitate them. That means they are no longer with a BCT training cycle or even in a Battery. They are waiting to get back into training. As I read more and more of some of our Blogs I laugh. Have any of you even surved in the military"

No sir, I have not served in the military. But almost my entire family did, and I was married to a VietNam Vet. In addition, BOTH of my sons have served in the Army now. Both are Iraq veterans...yes BOTH. One of the criers you referred to is my younger son. He was one of the whiners and criers who spoke out about the abuse in PTRP. He was a whiner who stopped a guy with a groin hernia from moving wall lockers... when the sadistic drill sergeant decided that all these INJURED guys who were in various stages of physical recovery (including surgery with stitches still in, broken and healing bones, etc) should move all the furniture, including bunks and wall lockers, out and scrape the floor on their hands and knees with razor blades TWICE, and wax and rewax it. Just as you talked about, ALL would be punished if it weren’t done. My son was a crier who asked me for help because no one would listen to them when they tried to go through the laughable channels that you have...where you all assume that these guys are just scared pu**ies that wanna go home. And yet he didn't ask me for help for himself...he asked me for help for the guys like Mathew Scarano, for the guys like McMahon (whose knees were kicked out from under him not long after knee surgery). And there were other whiners and criers, too. An awful lot of whiners and criers, Drill Sergeant. As an NCO, you should be proud of them. Despite the best efforts of their so-called command to intimidate them and isolate them, they all banded together to help each other to survive, and to stay alive in a place where they were treated like prisoners, not trainees. It is entirely because of their own efforts that more of them didn't die. That is not an exaggeration. Laugh all you like. The joke’s on them so you have that luxury.

They told me their stories, and to a man, each of them was more concerned about his fellow trainees than for himself. I find that amazing. And by the way, my son the whiner just recently returned from Iraq with a hard earned ARCOM. Don't presume to lecture me, Drill Sergeant. You get to sign in, write a flippant post laughing at this, and then go back and yuck it up with your fellow Drills. I have a mountain of letters from former AND CURRENT soldiers telling of abuses (by ANYONE's definition) that happened to them in medical holds and PTRPs across this country. Periodically, I post their stories. And you find it all funny? Well, yes, I guess you would. "Hey, how about that guy with the stitches in his hand trying not to get that solvent on them and use the razor blade...he just about peed his pants when I came up behind him and told him he was a useless piece of "s*it" and I was going to get him." hahaha "Oh yeah, and then, after making em all run back and forth every hour during the night changing uniforms and getting into formation...and half of them are on sleep meds...and the others who weren't had to drag them out and hold them up by their belts to keep them from falling over...supporting the dirt bags on their injured legs and with broken arms, that was great! hahaha" "Oh, and the best part is that when I gave out the medications, I gave that s*it head a double dose of his, so he couldn't even stand up...hahahahahahaha." I believe you when you say you laugh. That was a hallmark of the Fort Sill PTRP Drill Sergeants, too. Maybe it’s something in the water.

After all, those guys got hurt trying to serve their countries...and if they weren't whiners, they wouldn't have gotten hurt, right? So why allow them any shred of dignity or humanity? The fact that the main Drill Sergeant who was responsible for this had already been transferred from his previous post because of his abusive tactics elsewhere has nothing to do with it, right? But what was the excuse for his superior who was present for some of these abusive actions? It’s all the whiners and criers fault. What about the problem of "re-distribution" of the heavy-duty prescription drugs? I bet those of you who aren't involved in it believe that all the drug abuse problems are just the whiners and criers circumventing the system in some magical way, don't you? Ask yourself, who has the keys to the medication lockboxes? Oh well since it primarily affects the injured trainees, and they are just whiners and criers, who cares?

Well, I still hear from some of those whiners and criers, and it will make you laugh really hard, I’m sure. Some of them have been disabled for life, having never set foot on a battlefield. They were given inadequate or bungled treatment, their injuries were made worse by physical exertion against their medical profiles. Hey, what the heck, "shit happens". Some still can’t get their medical records from Fort Sill, because it’s too funny to pretend they are lost. Some have been able to continue on in the Army, but still have nightmares about what happened there at Fort Sill. Others have told me about waking up in a panic because for a moment, they think they're back in that Fort Sill hellhole. It's interesting to note that my son, the decorated Iraq veteran whiner, was picked up by my other son (the other Iraq veteran, presumably not a whiner because he didn't get injured in training) upon his return from Iraq. His elder brother observed that he looked better than when he had seen him right after his exit from PTRP, and asked him how he felt. He said, "if I had to choose between turning around right now and spending another 14 months in Iraq or going back for 6 months to PTRP at Sill, I would choose Iraq." And as much as I spent sleepless nights worrying about him while he was in Iraq, I completely understand that outlook.

You said: "But I don't see them writing and crying about this situation." No, they don’t write and cry. They tell their stories. If you’d actually read this blog, you’d have seen some of them. I will be putting more up soon. As you well know (being a Drill Sergeant and all), most don’t dare to speak up out of fear of retribution. A trainee has to have permission to either go up the chain of command or to the Inspector General’s office.

Basic training was a walk in the park compared to what those guys went through at the PTRP. So yes, parents...by all means. Your son should be just fine in Basic Training at Fort Sill. Many of the Drill Sergeants at Fort Sill are fine people who care about their trainees. I say that with no sarcasm. Some of them are stand-up guys. Just pray every night that your son doesn't get injured in training.

10:34 PM  
Anonymous Jean said...

I have posed on here once or twice. But only anonomously because I was still in the Army and was scarred about being identified. If you breeze through the comments...I'm the one that broke her pelvis twice and went to Warrior Rehab.

My mother also posted on here, anonomously.

I have now been out for...3 months.

I was injured in BCT and spent time in medhold (saw and experienced abuse). I graduated and went to AIT. I was re-injured in AIT and soon found out I was pregnant.

I was sopoussed to be sent home because of my pregnancy, but it took the Army 3 months to get their shit straight. Yet there was a prior service Sgt who was in AIT with me who found out she was pregnant at the same time...she was home in 2 wks.

In those 3 months in AIT I feared for my baby's life. I started loosing my hair, and it was turning white because the stress was SO HARD ON ME. The stress caused my morning sickness to be a 24/7 ordeal to the point where I started loosing weight and vomiting blood. I know it was from the stress because when I went home for Christmas Exodus I only got sick 2 times. Then when I went back to AIT I was once again vomiting all day.

On a few occasions I was not allowed enough time to get crutch to the D-Fac to eat, thus missing out on meals.

Some of the DS would scream at me while I was throwing up.

Other females in the Barracks with me snuck in crackers from the D-Fac (chow hall) so I could get something, anything to keep down. If they...or I were caught we would have been punished. Even though if you wanted to get technical...it was a nessicary reason. It might be in the civilan world, but not in Army Land.

Finally after 3 months, I was sent home.

BCT is sopoussed to break you down, and then build you up. That didn't happen with me. In BCT I was broken down physically and emotionally. Then broken down even more in Med-Hold. Then in AIT I was once again physically and emotionally broken down MORE. Then I was sent home. I was never built up. My family has to deal with what is left.

With everything that happened to me during my pregnancy and injuries, I have severe problems with depression. For about the 1st month or so that I was home I asked my mother to hide any pictures of me in uniform because I was ashamed. Whenever I would see an Army commercial on tv I would start screaming and throwing stuff at the tv. I would go to bed crying, and wake up the next morning crying.

I've been home for a year now, I'm doing better. I still have issues with depression, but I can get through an Army commercial now. And one of my best friends...who is a Drill Sgt...doesn't scarre me as much as he used to when he would wear his hat.

I was given a hardship discharge for being a single mom...I didn't get the med-board I earned.

My daughter is 8 months now and she is healthy despite the rough first trimester. My family believes that the reason it took so long for me to get out of AIT was because they wanted me to misscarry so I could be kept in training.

I occasionally have nightmares, the other night I had a dream that I was visably pregnant and the DS were trying to kick me in the stomach.

I don't want my daughter to join the Army.

3:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So I guess the lesson of the day is...if your a female in Med-Hold...get pregnant cuz you will get out of that prison.

6:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My father was in the Army, the Navy and the National Guard. My female cousin was in the Air Force. My sister and I joined the United States Navy. My daughter was in the United States Army.

The times of our various enlistments range from the 1940's until the year 2000. Oddly, NONE of us were witness to any abuse such as being described in these ridiculous posts!

It seems as if a few of you should take some classes to further your goal of becoming fiction writers. You are starting off pretty well.

To the young "lady" who claims she screams and throws things at the TV when a military recruitment ad comes on--you seem to have behavioral issues. Get it checked out before you end up throwing your baby at the TV. That is bizarre behavior!

Come on, people--THINK! As catnapping said, this would be against the law and the TROOPS would not allow it to continue. I am very sure that isolated incidents of abuse have occurred in basic training, but degree to this extent would not continue for long.

There is a lot of BS going on in this blog!

Signed,

Been there-done that!

11:48 AM  
Anonymous Jean said...

The reason the "normal" graduates don't witness this crap is because it is well hidden. If you or any of your family became injured then they would know the truth.

Don't you EVER....EVER fucking claim that I would hurt by baby you rotten bitch!

If I have behavioral problems like you claim...Med-Hold can take credit for that.

1:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmm...maybe why this issue isn't so well known is that maybe the few that talk about it are called "liars" and "fiction writers". I wonder how many abuse victims in the Catholic Church were called that....??

3:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Basic Training is so much different now, from when i went 6 years ago. It's supposed to be hard and it's supposed to break you down. The shark attack, yeah it was very shocking i had 4 drill sergeants yelling at me at the same time. Although i thought i made a mistake on the plane to fort leonard, MO. I thought oh well i have 4 years until my contract is over. Obviously i had done more than that. Being a female NCO, getting ready to go to Drill Sergent School and become a DS in FT. Sill has me wondering if i should actually do it. There is a lot of crybabies and liers and the ones who blow stuff out of proportion. But yet there are the ones who are really hurt and there are the DSs who definetely get out of hand and the NCOs who think they are drill sergents and get crazy when they didnt even go to the school and get trained to obtained the drill sergent patch. the army is not for everyone, and yeah i agree that is should be faster for the people who are actually hurt and cannot longer be in the army to get out in a reasanoble time. But there are the ones who cry because a window was open and it was cold?, or the food at the chow hall was awefull, or we did pt. in the snow, we only got 3 hours of sleep, we are hurt and we had to pull this and that? Or the im pregnant and the food made me sick. Ladies and Gentlemen...Is this what are your daughters and sons will say when they go to combat? if they ever have the chance of going. Well i hope i am not with them, if they cry like this. How do you think the soldiers in Normandy, Japan, Iraq felt and still feel. Because you will try to save your battle buddy even if you are hurt, you will learn to sleep however and whenever you can, trainees in basic training are supposed to act, react, and follow orders under an extreme stressful environment if not they are the ones who are gonna be killed in Iraq or let alone let their battle buddies die. I do agree, that the people who are truly hurt should get a better medical care, and the ones who cannot perform up the army standards should be able to get out in a decent time, i will probably loose it if i am in PTRP for more than a year. The whole point is that I am a female soldier, 5 feet tall 130 pounds, and yes becoming a soldier hurt but i sucked it up and kept on moving. The Army is going through a lot of changes some i agree and some i don't, but remember at the end we are building soldiers who at the end will be able to save your son's, daughter's, wife's, husband's life. For the ones who cannot make it, i wish there could be a faster way to get out, but that is not my call. But one thing is true everybody deserves respect, i instill this in my soldiers, and whenever i see an act of disrespect which is totally different from chewing out a soldier or smoking him/her. I speak up. As far as i know, there is a lot of new people taking over as drill sergents in fort sill, I am one of them, I hope i get to train civilians into soldiers, and i will not have pitty if you are a short, 100 and nothing lbs female, i will train them as well as i will train males. I hope to do my best with the ones who decided and voluntarily raised their hands to join the army.

2:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh yeah and i forgot, to the one who got pregnant while in PTRP or AIT, first of all evey recruit knows that fraternization is agaisnt regulation, that is having a romantic and sexual act with another recruit, soldier, NCO, etc. It is penalized under the UCMJ Code, and yeah being in the army pregnant sucks, i did it as an NCO with soldiers and the wanna be soldiers who for some reason made it through basic but yet they still find ways to get out. I had to work my ass off in the motorpool pass 7 months, and i ran all the way up to 4 months, if the drill sergeants wanted you to have a miscarriage that i dont know, and yes you should have gotten out quicker than 3 months, but just think how lucky you are because a real soldier has to work and some like it some not, Myself i had the responsibility cuz i had and still have soldiers under me, so im glad for you that you are in your couch with your baby, and i hope the best for you too. But just know that what you did was punishable because you did not follow the orders that were given as soon as you entered basic training, so you say AIT was hell but you still had the time to get pregnant, I hope it was from a serious boyfriend and not from some AIT who tells you the moon and the sun and now is with another one in their duty station.

3:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

actually in some AITs they have weekend passes. yeah u can't fraternnize, drink, etc on post or in uniform. but on weekends when u are let go to spend the night off-post...you can do whatever.

10:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HOLY HELLL..... my fiance asked me to look up videos of fort sill bct so i would know what they had to do an such, i found this blog... and yes i have read from top to bottom.. and have been brought to tears.. no one can know exactly how another person feels or has or hasn't endured... i feel really bad for those of you ha ve gone through such trauma.. my heart goes out to you.. and for those of you whom seem to doubt, how can you? seriously you are not them.. we all have the right to free speech, but yet we seem to judge anyone that uses it.. i have a nephew at fort sill, and now my fiance is there... i myself work at fort carson.. i pray that something be done to help the ones that need it, both recruits and drill sgts

6:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, so I went through the same sort of treatment down at Ft. Benning, when I went down for the National Guard. I'd gotten wavier after wavier for my knee before I left and even when I was down there, they did test after test, and assured me I'd be fine if anything happened to it. The reason for all of this was 'cause I'd torn it to shreds playing football, tearing the ACL PCL & MCL. Then I start OSUT for 11B.
First couple days weren't bad, then came the Assessment PT test, which I might remind everyone, is suppose to be given at Reception, but for 11B OSUT it's not. So, I had also warned my Battle Buddy to watch me for my knee, 'cause I've prob. one of the most stubborn people on the planet when it comes to admitting something is wrong with me and refuse to give up, as I'll show in a lil bit. Anyway, he says ok and agrees. I get through the Pushups and situps fine. Then the run starts, and well, a mix of an group of rather clumsy people and one shouldered me in the back of my bad knee.
Anyway, I fight through the pain and end up coming in last in the run for the entire company, which for a 1 mile run was bad, espically since I'm such a small guy. Anyway, I manage to fight through the day and go on sick call the next morning and am told that I have a pulled hamstring and to pull a elastic knee brace over onto my thigh without ever being physically examined by the 'DR'. Even after pointing out my knee problems. I was also put on a week long profile and given muscle relaxers.
Here's where things get interesting, I'm 'not' suppose to march or carry a ruck or anything, but as an 11B who must have his equipment. I was ordered to go with my platoon to get my equipment, which I was then ordered to carry back all of it with no help from my battle buddies, who all knew how much pain I'd been in, since they had seen how swollen my knee was when I was wearing my PTs. Then again, so had the only Drill Sgt. that cared a bit. He actually went out of his way to make sure, that my Battle Buddy helped me out.

Anyway, later on, I find out due to me having missed the week of Training, I'm going to be re-started after having missed that week of training due to my Profile. I refuse, 'cause I didn't want to miss my fall semester of college. Because of this, I'm later, Processed into a county jail for 3 days, while they work on my packet for me to leave. And then I go and spend a week doing details and such before leaving for home.

I get home and am still suffering from knee trouble and go to the Emergency Room off the Air Plane once I was picked up. Find out two days later that I had managed to re-tear my MCL, and partly re-tear the ACL and PCL as well. Now, I've had the surgery to repair it and am doing great now. And don't really blame what happened down at Ft. Benning on one person, but more on just what happened. Though, when I got back and the results were revealed, my dad, who is an 8 yr. Navy Vet. called down and talked with the Company Commander, that I had been with and he even ended up apologizing to me, which I found a great show of support.

Now, a year later, I've decided that I still want to be a solider as I have since I was a kid. I talked with my Brother who himself, is a Recruiter and with wavier after wavier I finally have managed to get back into the Army Reserves this time, as I refuse to deal with the National Guard. And I leave for my Basic training at Ft. Sill later this month.

So, now, I'm doing what I first signed up to do again, and am going back, though in a non-combat MOS this time, which should help partly and just the fact that I refuse to let myself fail.

Just felt that I would put my own experience up.

7:59 PM  
Blogger concerned mother said...

To the person who spoke of that pregnant women, you have no fucken right to speak to her or about her that way. She was sharing her experience, which was a BAD experience. You don't have to read what other individuals have to say, but apparently you choose to. So the hell with you.
To that young woman who was pregnant, I'm so sorry that you had to go thru that.We just need to make sure that, this stops before any one else goes thru something like this, or worse and dies.. Just take care of that tough little girl, and never let "ANY ONE" bring you down again.
Back to that Drill Sgt who states that he is tough and hard on his soldiers. Maybe you are just turning your head and looking the other way. ALL these people can't be making up stories. I assure you that I'm not. My son is in Ft Sill at this very moment. He recvd a head injury, inflicted by his DRILL SGT. What the hell is that all about? I'm doing everything that I can do, Senators, Congress, news papers, to let everyone know, the hell my son is going thru. If everything is FINE! like they say, then why not let me speak with my son? What are they trying to hide? Why are they calling my family and I stating to " BACK OFF, YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOURE GETTING INTO" Now I
not only fear for my son who is in Ft Sill, but for my whole family. So many questions, but no answers.

11:29 PM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

Concerned Mother,
It is very hard for people to accept that this happens. They don't want to believe it. I came to know quite a few of the fine young men in Fort Sill's PTRP during the time I put this blog up...and some still keep in touch. My son made it out of the PTRP (Physical rehab) and is now a decorated Iraq veteran...so much for the attitude that only "losers" get injured. But he has a permanent injury that he lives with every day...and that happened over his time at Fort Sill. When he came back from Iraq, his older brother (also a veteran) was teasing him and asked him if he would rather go right back to Iraq or spend another 6 months at Fort Sill's PTRP. He said quite seriously that he would rather go back to Iraq.
Most of these young men and women enlisted, and did their best to serve their countries. In return, they were treated like garbage for being injured. I leave this site up so that they can relate their exeriences, read others experiences and know they are not alone... and also so that others can learn.
I have certainly learned a lot. I have learned that the abuses are not confined to Fort Sill (you can read their stories here, too), and that most of the time family members and trainees give up out under the onslaught of threats, bullying and stonewalling that occurs when they dare to speak out. It IS scary. When you take this on, it effects your entire life in ways you would not believe. Efforts to discredit you will replace the threats in time. That's not so hard (if they're talking about you, they're giving someone else a rest). Just tell the truth. If you are being harassed, just remember: the more threats and bullying, the harder you have to work for your son. If they find ways to threaten him as well...directly or indirectly, know that the more public you keep your situation, the better for all.
I have absolute respect for those trainees who banded together to try to put a stop to their treatment at Fort Sill...and I'm honored to have been able to help them at all. It is to my eternal regret that I couldn't get enough attention to the combination of abuse and neglect happening there to prevent Mathew Scarano from dying while in their care. Some of those former trainees are permanently disabled, and still they don't dare to speak out about what happened, because now they depend on the VA system...and they fear their benefits will be effected if they talk about it. Most newspapers can't protect their identities, and so you don't see their stories in the public often. When the NY Times did their story about the Fort Sill situation, there were circumstances that couldn't be printed because they can't promise anonmymity at all.
It's easy for people to say something is against the law, or against regulations, and that "this (whatever it is) couldn't happen.". The reality is that it happens too often. The reality is that until it happens to a loved one or a friend, most people just don't care.
Don't give up. Don't wait for someone else to fix it for you. If you need my assistance, please contact me. If you can validate your son's story, there may be others who can assist you as well.

11:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i was one of the soldiers that was abused in ptrp. i my shoe laces taken away and put on sucide watch because supposedly i was racest even though i have friends of all races. after being in ptrp for over a year i was offered med board by the medical officers. The captain and 1st sgt told me that no i was not getting medboarded out they instead chaptered me out. Now with that happening it has been really hard for me to get the surgery i need for my ankle to be how it was before i injured it.im still trying to get my ankle fixed and ive been out since feb. 06. as to what was said that was being done to these soldiers that was true just not all the events are there some are missing. it angers me that people would discredit us like that and for what because we were hurt and never made it to a duty station. we wanted to go to our duty station hell i still want to be in the military but because of my injury and how i was delt with i cant. hopefully future soldiers that get hurt there will be treated the way they are supposed to be

8:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

some people keep saying bct but the thing is not everyone there ws hurt in bct some were in there final stages of ait the bct is getting easier but when ur injured and awaiting surgery or post surgery u dont need to be treated like peices of shit when ur supposed to be treated as permanat party members. some of the people there were peices of shit that didnt want to be there but that doesnt mean discredit those of us that did want to be in the army. and yhea some proplems were brought on us by us but they way they were handled was way out of line. the treating of those soldiers in there that wanted to be there is not something for the commanders to cover up that needs to get out n something needs to be done. thank you for starting this post while i was in ptrp. we were not allowed to contact the people we needed to or as has been said command lied and said none of this happened. after this post started we were all called into a room and it was read to us and then we were all told to stop making bs up or we were going to get article 15. we signed a piece of paper stating that we couldnt speak bad about the military. most people there were scared of getting article 15 or being treated worse if we said nething to people who would listen because they just to our command what was said. thanks for being our voice for us

8:29 AM  
Blogger maxi said...

Hi
This is maxi,Whatever its original purpose, the PTRP at Fort Sill is now a warehouse for a sliding inventory of 40-50 injured soldiers, and its occupants have been there for tenure of up to fourteen months. Current regulations state that in order to be admitted to PTRP, a soldier “is likely to recover within 4 months, and complete all the physical requirements of training.” In another area of the TR 350-6, they do acknowledge that a stay can be “up to 6 months in duration”.

It all started in August, 2005, when a young man whom will we call Private Sincere enlisted in the Army. He probably should have known when his first MOS (job description) was misrepresented to him, that this did not bode well for his future in the Army. Still, his brother was on duty in Iraq, and he wanted to “do something”. He went back to the MEPS (military entry processing station) with his recruiter, who helped him to change to the MOS he “thought” he had in the first place.
==================================
maxi

Oklahoma Drug Treatment

2:01 PM  
Blogger concerned mother said...

My son is still at Ft Sill, it's been over a month since his injury. The outcome of the investigation, that I pusshed so hard to get, was that the drill sgt acted inappropriately. Of course the military directed this so-called investigation. Due to his inappropriate act my sons vision and hearing is impaired. Per their own neurologist, at Ft Sil, my sons vision is permanently damaged. He is being harrased everyday, confined to his quarters, eating only if his drill sgt remembers to get him out of his quarters. Now, none of this was his fault, so someone please tell me, why is he being treated like a criminal? Since July 19,2008, when the incident occured, I write a letter evernite and send it off in the morning. Out of all those letters my son has recvd five. Isn't this the kind of treatment someone gets when the are sent to prison? What can I do to help save my son? The last conversation I had with my son was on Tuesday August 19,2008. Which was only possible because of his meeting with his attorney James Branum. My son is very depressed, he is falling apart with each passing day. If there is someone out there who can help, please respond. This is a desperate cry for help, please don't let my son be another lost soul.

1:35 AM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

I have forwarded your latest comments to a couple of people who may be able to help you to help your son. It would assist me greatly if you would please send me your contact information (email and/or telephone) at: ptrosss(at)gmail.com so that I can forward it on to my contacts. Please send me your information and hang in there.

10:46 AM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

Concerned Mother,
I'm reliably informed that one of the things you can do is to have your son sign an information release, so that his doctors can discuss his diagnosis and treatment with you.

10:49 AM  
Blogger whatever said...

My does this bring back bad memories... I was in PTRP at Fort Benning in 2003 where we were forced to cut grass, fill and move sand bags, move furniture , clean 24/7 pull guard duty for battalion and brigade, any do other manual labor they could find for us plus for about a month after we got a new DS where were on 1/2 "fire guard" all night for all of you that don’t know what that means half the bay had to be up every other hour for an hour every night. We were treated like prisoner, to all of you that said oh you need to speak up they cant do that, I don’t believe you I’m guessing that you have never been in the Army its called "chain of command" no one wants to hear about it if they are not your chain of command I’ve told numerous doctors and other high ranking NCOs that where not part of my COC and they did nothing about it. I had to go AWOl and get a OTH discharge just to get away from it all before I went crazy or injured myself even more from all the hard labor.

2:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a PFC, I would like to not use my real name hear, but I was actually anally raped by a sergeant while in PTRP.

I just keep living day to day, heavily medicated.

10:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, I am currently in Drill Sergeant School at FT Jackson. Reading this stuff makes me want to throw up. There are kids I think who should not move onto a duty station for many reasons. But abuse by NCO's is totally unacceptable and should not be tolerated by anyone, no matter what rank you have on your chest. One of the bigggest reasons I wanted to become an NCO and now a DS is to start a change within our ranks and build up our young men who choose to serve and make them better than myself. I have many battle buddies who feel the same way, and hopefully positive change is on the way.
For those who are in the middle of this, sound off and be heard. Someone where you are will listen and care, and hopefully act on it to improve your conditions.
Parents of soldiers, your son did not sign up to be physically abused and tortured. Go as high as possible in the chain and be heard in person. If it were my child I would not stop until I saw some stars on that persons chest.
I wish you all better days and am gratefull for all who make the choice to serve with me in the worlds best Army. My famalies prayers go out to you and yours.

ARMT STRONG

2:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Noncommisioned Officer stationed at Ft Sill this blog is shocking to say the least. While I have had no direct dealings with the rehab program itself, I can say with certainty that no self respecting leader would allow this to happen. IG is there for the soldier...if they say no wrong doing has occured then I am inclined to believe that. Hazing is one of the hot button issues in the Army right now...over shadowed only by the recent spike in suicides. So its hard to convince me that sneior leaders would let this type behavior take place. Trust me in saying...no matter how worthless a new recruit turns out to be, its not worth giving up your career jus to make life hard on them. And if the alligations here are true then thats what is happening. Everyone from the post commander on down will feel this pain. Thats why, for me, this seems more of a "my baby is getting more than he bargained for" than actual abuse. If it was a single soldier then I could buy off on it...but to say it is happening to well over 100...sounds to me like the "hurt" soldiers arent the only ones looking for attention here.

8:39 PM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

To the Drill Sgt in training -- Thanks you for your comments. If in fact you and your battle buddies do "start a change within our ranks and build up our young men who choose to serve and make them better than myself" then the sorts of things described in here will come to an end. But it takes two halves to make a whole. If you see abuse occurring, you also have to speak up. Part of the problem at Fort Sill's PTRP was that the DS's superior was present for some of the abuse, and informed the trainees that they hadn't seen anything. There was eventually action taken on these incidents (read the other blog entries). However, this story is far from over, which is why these blog entries are still up. I hear from trainees and family members frequently enough to know there's a systemic problem. I only post the stories with permission, and after they are validated. I know that it takes a lot of courage, whether trainee or DS, to speak up. I hope you and your buddies have that courage. Fyi, my father was a Marine DS, and I have 2 sons who are Army Iraq veterans (one about to go for his 2nd tour). Thanks again for your comments.

7:08 AM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

To the NCO at Fort Sill:
You said: "I can say with certainty that no self respecting leader would allow this to happen."
Thank you for your comments. You have hit the nail on the head, sir. And the IG did respond. One DS "lost his hat" and his superior (who was present during some of the abuse)was reprimanded. Sadly, it wasn't in time to prevent the death of a young man who had spent both his 20th and 21st birthdays in the PTRP, against regulations , from a drug overdose. Interestingly, the medication records from that night disappeared, and were never recovered. A year and a half before that, another injured trainees died. The attitude, when there were repercussions, was "you betrayed your superiors." Those young men who spoke out to the IG and to the press, were heroes as far as I'm concerned. They tried every other avenue in the chain of command, and got nowhere. As the mother of a trainee in that PTRP, I got nowhere. Just like you, they thought, "Thats why, for me, this seems more of a "my baby is getting more than he bargained for" than actual abuse." If kicking the knees out from under a trainee who has just had knee surgery is not abuse...if forcing young men with groin hernias to lift heavy bunks and lockers & threatening them if they hesitate is not abuse... and many other incidents documented herein is not abuse, then I don't know what is... Read the other entries and comments. Fort Sill is not the only PTRP with problems, it's just the worst. I never said there were 100 cases of abuse at Fort Sill, so I don't know where you came up with that figure.
I don't know how long you have been at Fort Sill, but I can tell you the entrenched rot in certain areas of the post is the cause of this problem. Perhaps you are even part of it. I don't know. You say you don't have any direct dealings with physical rehab...and yet you put our a blanket, "Trust me" because you are an NCO, and imply that these incidents didn't happen. CNN, BBC, and others reported on it after the Nation & NY Times broke the story. It's to my eternal regret that I refused to go on TV about it as requested, because I feared that it would be seen as "15 minutes of fame" for me. I let that cloud my judgement, when perhaps I could have helped to effect real change, not just cute little "thank you's" to me from TRADOC with a promise of change, to shut me up.
Instead, the TR 350-6 now allows injured trainees to be thrown in with those who are
overweight and out of shape, and can't pass their PT tests, with no medical oversight to determine whether they are released or recycled. It's shameful.
This is long, I know, but I have one last thing to say to you. This overprotective Mom is the daughter of a Marine DS, who was at Pearl Harbor, Iwo Jima, and Guadalcanal...whose 3 uncles also served in various service branches (one was in a Japanese POW camp), & whose ex-husband is a Vietnam veteran who only came home in body. Both my sons served honorably in Iraq; the one who "blew the whistle" because of the conditions in Fort Sill's PTRP is now a decorated veteran about to leave for his 2nd Iraq tour. Those are my credentials, sir. Perhaps you should "Trust me." But that's not going to happen, is it.

8:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reading this brings back a flood of memories from Ft. Sill. I am out now but do I have some stories for you. As far as for those drills that want to abuse the weak......I grew up in one of the toughest places in this country.....Robert Taylor Homes in Chicago,il...I'm talking the projects, so I know what the fuck urban warfare is, I didn't have to go overseas to learn that and I would bet if you showed up in my neighborhood trying to abuse that round brown you would have gang members, from all walks of life waiting in line to shove it up your mother fuckin ass. To my fellow soldiers who have endured or are enduring suffering at Sill.....keep on keeping on. Do what you have to do to be heard.

12:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My name is Steve Perry, I myself joined the Army at the tender age of 17, with parental permission. I did my basic a A Battery 1/19th FA 4th Platoon RAIDERS! HOOAH!-- My basic began on Jan 6th 2005, I went to sick bay 1 time, after having dental work... And the way these men are treated is FAIR! The vast majority of them in there, are not sick or injured, but weakling who, cant hack it and refuse to fulfill there OBLIGATION, to our country and the US ARMY! Quit whining, and man the fuck up Soldiers... They have to be tough, in order to make you a finely tuned killing machine, that you need to be at these times of war! Anyone, who wishes to bitch at me, do so, at steve_perry_army@yahoo.com

12:06 PM  
Blogger mikejacobs74 said...

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10:01 AM  
Blogger mikejacobs74 said...

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10:02 AM  
Blogger mikejacobs74 said...

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10:36 AM  
Anonymous Abu said...

I was at Fort Leonard Wood and went through the same thing. Not as long though but my fellow soldiers were there 14months+. For the record MANY spoke up to the doctors,cpt,etc. Little is done. ITS NOT BEING DISGRUNTLED! IT IS THE WAY THE ARTICLE READS. Lost my faith in the Army Values, thats for sure! Hooah? Hell no...


""IBOUTASWELL.. I read the preceeding comments with much incredulity; doesn't sound like the Army I knew for 20 years...nor does it sound like the basic training and AIT I went through in '73. While I have no doubts that an isolated incident could occur, I seriously doubt that something of this magnitude could go on for this long without seeing the light of day somehow. There is too much phony sounding stuff here. For one thing, after the abuse scandals of Iraq, I for one don't believe that anyone could think they could cover up something like this.

I agree with the advice; if it is indeed happening, then by all means, contact your congressman and/or senator. As for the need for a form to be filled out...etc, that sounds like a load of bs to me also. In my tenure, I instigated 3 congressional inquiries which all resulted in action within 48 hours.

To me, this whole thing smells of disgruntlement though""

4:24 PM  
Blogger mikejacobs74 said...

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5:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Follow up on anyone of these fine staff at Fort Leonard Wood, MO sometime and see if anything ever happened to them with all the "we'll look into" BS that army spewed out:

DS Heinz, PTRP, for sexual assault.
1st Sgt Brown for the inhumane lockdowns.
DS Smoot, for "smoking" injured soldiers.
DS's MacDonald and Stephens for multiple lies, failure in duty, and for walking in on males while they were going to the bathroom on personal time.
DS Day and his failure to take his PTSD meds as prescribed, leading to violent mood swings (such as through trashcans around, marching injured soldiers in rain with no protective gear)

Or DS McDonald & DS Compton of Delta Company who would read aloud soldiers medical records to the entire company.

Or DS Wafford and 1st Sgt Outen for the traumatizing of a female soldier on suicide watch.

Or Captain Taylor & 1st Sgt Outen who claimed a soldier was "a f**king faggot who liked taking it up the ass" to the entire Delta Company in October 07 after he went to discharge.

Good Army values, eh?

5:58 PM  
Anonymous Sarai said...

(to the above comment and all else) I too had a horrible experience as I had to run 5 miles with a foot that was broken in 2 spots being continually threatened by the drill sgt that if I stopped or did not quit crying I would be "slapped with an article 15" not to mention the private threats that were made to me by drill sgt wofford who I suspect took personal information from my files, when he left early about halfway through our rotation. I still have nightmares about basic. I would've made a good soldier and many others I saw go through discharge. I also saw soldier that had mental problems like multiple personality disorders and sexual behaviors towards drill sgts to gain favor. Wanna know what is wrong with the system? Start at the beginning where they get accepted.

11:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its people like you that make my job harder I will not deny some cases of abuse probably do happen around the country. But some kids that go through training are weak and are not able to perform will be pushed out you the parents who think your kids are so great are not by any means. When you walk 10 to 12 miles with 50lbs on your back you will get stress fractures and swollen feet sore backs. Then your golden little kids will cry all the way to the doctor to get a profile. And by ARMY REGULATION a profile is "ONLY A RECOMENDATION BY THE DOCTOR" and does not have to be followed also once a soldier violates his own profile it is no longer valid. It’s funny when a soldier want to do pugle sticks his profile does not exist but when it comes to road march or something he don’t want to do he is on a profile again its funny how all you parents cry and complain just like your kids. "ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE” For example as an INFANTRYMAN this law applies all you have is your buddy and he can’t be weak. It’s not like a paper pusher who will never leave the FOB or some female soldier that will sleep her fat body to the top of the ranks.
People must remember soldiers are trained to fight to the death and fight is much worse then what we DRILL SEGEANT’s can do in basic training. So how would you civilians prepare you son’s and daughters for war when you see friends being killed all around you watching them die after you tried to save them or go home and give their family a folded flag? And have to say ON BEHALF OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS GRATEFUL NATION. MAY I PRESENT TO USE THIS FLAG AS A TOKEN OF OUR APPRECIATION FOR YOUR LOVED ONES SACRAFICES AND DEVOTION. If all you people are so great join the ARMY and become a Drill Sergeant and she how easy life really is. Instead of piss and moan on this forum get of your 3rd point of contact and sign the dotted line. Most of people I have seen come in the army in the last 2 years have not done a physical thing in their life. I have soldiers that can’t even do 2 push-ups that are men I don’t train females.
THIS WELL DEFEND
U.S. ARMY DRILL SERGEANT AND DAM PROUD

5:49 PM  
Blogger mikejacobs74 said...

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6:40 PM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

Anonymous DS: Initial Entry Training specific regulations are cited in the TR 350-6,regarding the treatment of trainees with medical profiles. You said: "And by ARMY REGULATION a profile is "ONLY A RECOMENDATION BY THE DOCTOR" and does not have to be followed also once a soldier violates his own profile it is no longer valid."
Fyi, a soldier/trainee is subject to punishment for violating his/her physical /medical profile. Here’s an excerpt from the TR 350-6 regulations for your review, which you obviously need: http://www.tradoc.army.mil/tpubs/regs/tr350-6_1Jul09.pdf
"f. Soldiers with physical profiles.
(1) Soldiers with documented physical limitations require special PT programs. Unit leaders will maintain a positive approach to all special fitness training. The program will:
(a) Support components of fitness the Soldier can continue to develop through the profile period. Soldiers on profile will participate in a regular fitness program IAW profile specifications. Substitute appropriate activities to replace those regular activities in which they cannot participate. The activity levels of Soldiers usually decrease while they are recovering from sickness or injury. It is important for Soldiers to engage in the cardio-respiratory fitness activities permitted by their profile and pay special attention to their diets to avoid gaining body fat.
(b) Permit the Soldier to rest injured parts of their body as recommended by medical personnel.
(c) Rehabilitate specific parts of the body guided by recommendations from medical personnel.
(2) The primary sources of guidance for profiled Soldiers’ PT are:
(a) DD Form 689 (Individual Sick Slip) prescribes simply stated limitations, such as "no running, jumping, or marching," for a brief period of time (no more than 30 days).
(b) DA Form 3349 prescribes more extensive limitations, such as "no running, marching, jumping, climbing, crawling, or repetitive knee flexion," and is used if the profile is for a more than 30 days.
(c) Handout from the MTF showing specific rehabilitative activities for the Soldier. These may include stretches and muscle fitness activities not found in FM 21-20, or may prescribe a regiment for graduated return to activity (such as walk no farther than 1/4 mile on day 1, walk no farther than 1/2 mile on day 2, etc.)...”
This blog is about injured trainees & their abuse in medical holds & PTRPs. It's not about basic training. Fyi, injuries aren't uncommon in basic training.
"Army basic combat training (BCT) is a challenging 9-week period during which new recruits develop basic soldier skills and increase their physical fitness. As a result of the physical challenges of BCT, 15 to 37% of men and 38 to 67% of women sustain at least one injury." (Source: Outcomes of Fort Jackson's Physical Training and Rehabilitation Program in Army Basic Combat Training: Return to Training, Graduation, and 2-Year Retention;Military Medicine, Jul 2004 by Hauret, Keith G, Knapik, Joseph J, Lange, Jeffrey L, Heckel, Heidi A, Et al)
As the mother of two sons, both Iraq veterans --one on deployment for his 2nd tour right now on a remote FOB--I think trying to scare family members of injured trainees with your quote about the folded flag is reprehensible. We could open the door any day & find Army personnel telling us our loved one is never coming home from war. We live with it every day.
An injured trainee’s family members shouldn’t have to fear their loved ones treatment right here in the U.S. Open up your eyes & look around at the situation "your" trainees end up in if injured. You think they're injured because they're weak. They deserve to be punished for being injured. Do they deserve to be permanently disabled? Do they deserve to die, to make up for those who die on deployment? Do they deserve your contempt for attempting to serve their country? Clean up your own back yard & then come back and cast the first stone, Drill Sergeant.

8:00 PM  
Blogger mikejacobs74 said...

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8:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow this is an interesting subject. I love to debate and argue things when it comes to Training soldiers most Drill Sergeants are picked by the Department of the Army. And most I say most of the time are the ones that are hard charging go getters that bust their but to get things done. They often don't want Drill Sergeant duty who wants to deal with traines most of which should not be in the Army? Drill Sergeant duty is a punishment for soldiers that are squared away. Trainee abuse does happen life is not perfect either is the ARMY. There is always ways to get help no matter how severe things seem to be. Also while looking through this forum I see alot of attacks on Drill Sergeants abusing sons or daughters but how many have heard the Drill Sergeans story from his mouth fact to face?. As far as 350-6 and all these quotes for regulations FM's TM's. Thats all great but read 350-6 cover to cover then go out to BCT and within regulations and what you are given train soldiers and see how far it gets you. Also all this crying about profiles from what I have seen and as far as relaxin jackson and stat's go visit them and see how well they are trained at Fort Jackson.

8:34 AM  
Blogger Pat deV said...

Once again, there seems to be a misunderstanding. This blog is about the abuse of injured soldiers, primarily in MEDICAL HOLD batteries and PTRP at Basic Training facilities. Its focus is not on Basic Training itself.
You are correct, there are always ways to get help. Many, if not most, are intimidated out of getting that help. I never recommend not going through the chain of command, up to and including the Inspector General's office if needed. In the case of a battery of injured trainees at Fort Sill's PTRP, that's what it took. But then, if you knew anything about Fort Sill, you would know it has a long history of corruption. Don't take my word for it, look it up.
As to disregarding the TR350-6, those regulations were created by the Department of the Army, not by civilians. Those are the regulations by which you are legally bound. Your statement clarifies what many know, that those regulations are blatantly disregarded by those who believe they are justified.
If you actually read this blog, you would know that investigations have been done, and Drill Sergeants and their superiors who knew of their behavior were punished for physically abusing injured trainees. They violated their own regulations. That's as it should be. Most Drill Sergeants, as I have repeatedly said, are fair and competent. They do themselves, their trainees, and their country a disservice by ignoring their fellow Drill Sergeants when they engage in abuse. I allow unmoderated comments and delete nothing except for spam/ads.
Up to 38 out of every 100 male trainees is injured during basic training. It's not just guys who are "weaklings" or "out of shape." I have met them. They come in all states of physical ability. They are football players, swimmers, bike racers, as well as average guys. I can't speak to the women, as Fort Sill didn't have BCT for women.
Abusing injured trainees who are supposedly sent to PTRP and medical hold units to recover and return to training serves no one. Your own Department of the Army...you remember...the same ones who "pick the Drill Sergeants" has recommendations on how to motivate injured trainees. Funny how none of their research points to abuse and contempt as being good ideas.

12:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is all BS. All the parents talking shit about getting there kids out of Sill are crazy. I guess that you will just clean up after them forever right? They are adults and made a decision that they would serve there country. As for the the shitbags clamining abuse they just had a shock that life isn't peachy all the time and had there feelings hurt because someone yelled at them a little bit. If you can't take a DS yelling then what are you gonna do if you are taken POW in a war zone? They would be the first ones to crack and reveal secrets and badmouth there country. I went to Benning and had a stress fracture in my foo the whole time I was there and ran and marched. I wonder what the warriors that gave all would say or think about Peices of Shit like this? They haven't earned the right to be called soldiers. I say kick out the nutjobs right away. Fix the injured and send them home to recoop without a paycheck. Then if they are serious about serving pass a med board to finish there training and be a soldier. I bet they will want more though because most are just leaches.

2:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

fort sill is that bad talk to soldiers who are ptrp who got trasfered from white sands in 09

11:17 PM  
Anonymous US Army Soldier said...

All this calling of Senators and Congressmen has made boot camp very difficult for those who are trying to run it. The ridiculousness of it even frustrates the recruits! I remember in my platoon the majority of us were pissed off that we weren't getting the training we needed due to someone calling a senator.

To the parents who are scared for your childrens' choice to join, get over yourself. They are adults and they have made the decision. Let them deal with boot camp, it will be good for them. In my time in the Army I have never heard or seen anyone being treated inhumanely.

The Army is a big place and there are assholes in the Army who take things too far, get on power trips. But those guys are usually taken care of quickly, and if they are not it's up to the soldiers to find a way out. It's not that hard!! I have a feeling most of these complainers are the same shitheads in my platoon trying to have sex with girls and stealing food from other recruits to sell in the bays. It's ridiculous.

7:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The abuse of the IET injured is very real !!! I am a 26 years old female. I went to FLW for BCT and was injured during training in Sept of 09 and after being toyed with for months and injured more I finaly had surgary. During my time there I was abused mentaly and physicaly, I reported the male DS who attacked me, he confronted me after telling me it was pointless and nothing will happen to him and they will assume I was lieing ... he was right. I was abused furture for reporting him, and receaved an artical 15 for false reasons. I asked to speak with a chapline and a counsaler, both were refused with much more mental abuse.
yes I understand that if I were a POW I would be receaving the same treatment, but I was not a POW I was injured in BCT and in need of serious counsaling and help. They refused to discharge me telling me they will keep me there as long as possible to make sure I get the most out of my stay there and trust me it was said in a very bad way... I went AWOL

this doesn't even cover the tip of what went on there

11:09 PM  
Anonymous Michael Aguero said...

I was at FT. BENNING in 07. The same things where happening there. Soldiers forced to work or stand in formations for hours on end in spite of most of us having leg and back injuries.

There it was called MCU or Medical convalescent unit, and was next to PTRP

We has worms and other infestations in our bays, and up to 180 people at one time, just when I was there.
I had no idea this was going on at other bases.

Contrary to what some may think, most of the ones there are good people who want to serve in the army.

Three years after my discharge and all I want is to get back. The army has to fix this. When recruitment numbers are down they're wasting perfectly good soldiers.

9:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I went to boot camp at fort sill in 2001 and personally witnessed alot of these claims that you made. I spent alot of time hoping and praying that I wouldn't become one of the "broke dicks" that had to suffer the eternal boot camp experience. I personally spent almost a month waiting in reception just to get to boot camp. I was part of the FTB because I couldn't run fast enough at first to past the initial PT test and was witness to alot of these people who are just "stuck". I was also physically abused by my drunk drill sergent in my 7th week of my training.( Punched in the stomach while standing toe to line in front of the offices under my bay). I remember one specific young man that just could not do push ups. He was in the ftb before i got there and I ran across him toward the end of my training and he was still in the FTB. I was dumbfounded that this could happen to someone. Once you are put in one of these "Stuck" Locations it is seemingly impossible to get out which is why alot of these young men resort to acting likethey are mentally unstable and physically harming themselves. The people in charge at fort sill should be behind bars in fort levenworth.

2:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FORT SILL OK. 1985 DRUGGED AT BOOT CAMP.I WAS USED TO SCARE OTHER RECRUITS .IT MAY HAVE BEEN ACID ,SAW MELTING WALLS AND I STOP EATING BECAUSE OF THE PURPLE TINT COLOR ON FOOD.I HAVE NO PROVE OF THIS BUT AFTER DISCHARGED EVERYTHING IS NORMAL

10:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was in Fort Sill from January '06 - April '06. I witnessed "Pvt. Sincere" firsthand as he stumbled out of the PTRP barracks in nothing but his combat boots and patrol cap with feces smeared on his face. He walked past the DFAC, which at the time was full of female soldiers from another section of the base, and walk to the PT field. I heard of the stories while I was in training and had CPT Cunningham as my battery CO. My platoon SGT was Drill SGT Bullock. Drill SGT Fulton was my in-processing Drill. I was placed into PTRP for one month with 15 other soldiers for failing my 1 mile run. I barely passed the second time. My primary Drill Sergeant was SFC Howell. I was pushed to my breaking point so many times, I lost count. I witness one soldier tear three cruciate ligaments in his neck during first aid training and another shatter his ankle in SIX places during the final forced march. Both soldiers have since out-processed. I can personally attest to CPT Cunningham's incompetence, negligence, and short-sightedness when it came to the safety and mental welfare of the soldiers under his command. If there is ever a military tribunal condemning the actions of the enlisted and officers listed in this blog, I hope I am called upon to bear testimony so that these wastes of space can be made to pay for their actions.

6:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its the same shit all over the country. Im currently in my 11th month here at FT. Sam Houston medhold. Still have to be put to bed at 2030 every night. My life has had no progress in the past year and am mentally exhausted dealing with the ignorant and incompetent shitbag NCO's. Iv lost my morale and motivation. The Army is full of shitbags and bad leaders. Many soldiers end up in the Psych ward and/or go AWOL. Itsz quite sad.

There really isnt a defense for such treatment. Abuse and malpractise is undergone on a daily basis under a banner of order and discipline.

War is ugly, but psychological torture by friendlies isnt a way to show the pressures of war or motivate soldiers.

Glad to see my tax money wasted.

1:01 PM  
Anonymous PV2 Hicks, BCT Class2008 said...

I went to basic at Fort Sill, Oklahoma and this really happened. I beleive it and stand behind this. I was there when a Soldier shot himself at the 95th A.G.

3:07 AM  
Blogger lobogriz said...

hello i am a soldier in the army, and I can tell you that the problem
is the lack of education and training, the leaders have. most of the leaders in the army (nco).some
are people that never had anything
before they join, and they are not given the proper training to be a leader (leadership psychology).example. they don't know what they are doing. THE OLD ARMY WAS BECAUSE YOU DID NOT HAVE A CHOOSE,THE NEW ARMY IS BECAUSE YOU WANT A CHOOSE.(EARN THERE HEARTS AND YOU WILL EARN THERE WILL).and the ones that do not want it let them go,it will be a way of cutting expense.

10:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's typical of some of the units that warehouse troops. Medholds for one. I was at Fort Knox in 2003-2004 and they did some nasty things to injured, sick and wounded troops who returned from overseas duty. There are many sadists in the Army who are not fit to ware the uniform.I had 2 suicidal soldiers which I did my best to help. I took much heartache from some, running that sorry ass unit who was a Medhold. I have never seen any Army Unit that was as bad leadership wise or any other. Even the Commander was fraternizing with a enlisted clerk. The Medhold Patients were treated like enemy pow's. I would recommend find out who the
IG and file a complaint with the JAG at Fort Sill as well as what those have wrote before.

1:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This has been going on for a very long time. Imagine what I went through in 2001. It was horrible beyond belief and it has ruined my life. All because of that place and Dr. major Whiteside. I gave my health for this country and they screwed me for life. I am left in pain and stuck paying for it for the rest of my life. The commander had to come in and keep those pricks from giving me a horrible discharge. Fuck them. I hope I never see any of them ever again or I will snap. Even 11 years later.

3:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was there at ft sill in early07 and i thank god every day i was smart enough to get out of that hell... i used to read the bottem of the bunks at c95th and they would say "17 months and im finally leaving" or some.bullshit like that. i have buddys who took a taxi straight to the bus station and as a iet soldier if you do this just dont come back! they dont do shit to you. i was lucky i guess.... blessed with a good battery comander to help me get out. cpt ikeana is a saint in my eyes. this shit does happen. its so real i still dream about cutting those dickhead ncos throats who did that to my friends. hang in there guys there are good people who will help you get to where you have to be....there just few and far. till then do what i did, piss in there coffee water!

3:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is this a problem at all basic training Forts. My soldier is stationed in Ft. Benning and he has multiple stress fractures and they give him any medical help. He is terribly discouraged.

7:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't believe everything you read. Some of these "PTRP soldiers" and I use the word "soldiers" loosely as I should be referring to them as whiny momma's boys and milking the system for all they can get. I personally know Langford and the story that is told here is a flat out lie. Yes, DS Langford did make those soldiers move from off the couch in front of the TV and EARN the free paycheck they were getting. BUT all duties assigned to these soldiers were WITHIN their profile limits. The doting mom in this blog needs to cut the apron string and let her son be a man. The army is a place for MEN, not whiny momma's boys. I hope these three dirtbags are out of the Army by now. The Army doesn't want or need troublemakers and deadbeats.

7:01 PM  
Blogger Kendra Thompson said...

I went to fort jackson over 9 years ago...while i was there the ds told us they were no longer allowed to curse at us im not sure if they were allowed to "smoke" us but they did it anyway...i agree with the ds that mentioned that boot camp is supposed to be hard its not supposed to be a walk in the park if it was anyone could do it...ive been on active duty 9 years and i am now an NCO i take pride in my job and i earned my rank...i think its BS that these soldiers are making accusations but i was not there so i honestly dont know

5:48 PM  

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